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PostSubject: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:47 am

This may have been covered in some fashion up until now but I keep getting the inclination to post about it. The weather is warming, at least in the US and dew collection is going to be getting easier. I am wondering about the concept of “putrefying dew”. If I collected some dew in April and had it sitting until the May timeframe before adding the salt, would it enhance the process? I have always been under the impression you should add your salt quickly to it and then heat it up. So I would like to know your all’s take on leaving the dew sit for a period of time to gather more, say for a month or so..or your take on “putrefying dew” in general.
Traci
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:22 pm

The Leyden document says,

Quote :
"Now when you have enough of your dew close your glasses exactly, and keep it till you use it, that none of its spirits may evaporate, which may easily happen. Set it therefore in a cool place, that no warmth may come to it, or else the subtle spirit will rise and be gone; which will not so happen if after you have filled your glasses with Dew quite full, you close them very well with wax.

The Capuccine monk says,

Quote :
Put the gathered dew into glass containers, lute them and
store them in the cellar until you need them.

So I think it should be fine so long as the dew is kept cool (refrigerate it) and well sealed. I don't know if it would putrefy in this state, I don't see why it would. Something I've noticed with bottles of water is that small amounts of the water will evaporate and collect on the sides of the container even when the bottle is under 70 degrees F. I think this is why the philosopher of Leyden says that the bottles should be full and sealed with wax. Does this help?
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:25 pm

On tha contrary to trueKabbalist putrefied dew maybe is essential to the process, despite what the both "letters" are teaching.
Remember Nicholas made his elixier with putrefied dew.
Look at his thread "Don't put elixir dirrectly on tongue!":

"Also I should mention that when I first mixed the raw dead sea salt with the putrefying dew that had been sitting for about a month a room temperature already, the resulting concoction was smelly just like the beach (the sea salt also contained ground kelp powder, most of which I was able to filter out)."

In some alchemical texts like the Reusenstein for example, it is said before you let your dew to putrefy for one month you must first boil it in a kettle.The first thing that comes to mind is what will happen with the dew "spirit"?Will it evaporate?

The answer on this may come very soon if Nicholas find to be appropriate to share the results with us.He is working on it right now.
Look at his thread:"Dew collection, new method.":

"Right now I'm working on distillation of dew to see if the Reusenstein process works without smoking the dew first."
scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 pm

HI, yes that does help. I think it's something important to consider. I have read about it a hundred times but after the lull time in waiting while making the elixir, reading what has become a lot of posts now and generally overthinking it, I started getting confused on the 'putrefaction of dew'. I will probably try both way with April collected dew, provided I have ample heat sources.. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:20 am

Hi There all,

I been cooking my dew like for 4 days... and the salt that presipitated to the bottom is gray and is getting little darker than grey, but I don't really what I am looking for...

It may help us all if Nick will post his pictures on the different stages of his wotk, specialy the putrefyed Dew, so we can compare...

Thanks!! sunny

I will post my photos tomorrow I just got back from a trip...
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:10 am

Here are some photos...

As you guys can see I have a special pan for Bath Marie







-Oscar sunny


Last edited by Oscar on Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:53 am

As long as I understood. the dark precipitant is expected in the first weeks of the process.

So for me this is a sign that your work is correct so far.

Now , Can anyone give us a definition of what putrefaction means in terms
of the alchemical jargon?

I understood that it not always means the real putrefaction. it is a stage
in a process.

I found an interesting text here.

http://www.alchemylab.com/AJ2-5.htm

just do a CTRL_F and look for "putrefaction"
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:40 pm

In the dew process putrefaction means simply putrefaction.
For example you pour the dew in a kettle,smoked it (like the water for the tea) then your pour everything in a wooden oak barrel until it rots, after that you distill it and hurra... you make it.
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:52 pm

Fermentation: (1)
How do you work in unmanifested reality; how do you enter the Above; how do you get to
the Other Side? You have to die in this world and be reborn in the next. The alchemists called this
dual process of death and rebirth Fermentation, and just like natural fermentation, it is a two-staged
process that begins with Putrefaction, in which the matter is killed and allowed to decompose and
rot in sealed containers or coffins. For instance, in winemaking, grapes are crushed or “sacrificed”
and their juice stored in closed barrels to decompose and ferment, and release the “spirit” of wine.

Chemical Fermentation is a natural process consisting of two parts. First comes Putrefaction,
in which the matter decomposes. The alchemists even added manure to help get the process going.
The sign that Putrefaction is nearing its end is a milky white fluid (bacteria) that accumulates on
the surface of the blackened, rotting material. The universal symbol for this process is the
astrological sign of Leo. The symbol meaning to putrefy or digest something is a smaller
symbol for Leo.

The dead material seems to come to life again with the influx of digesting bacteria, as
Fermentation begins. This new life force changes the fundamental nature of the material in what
the alchemists saw as a process of spiritization. Out of the utter blackness of Putrefaction comes
the yellow Ferment, which appears like a golden wax flowing out of the foul matter. Its arrival is
announced by the formation of an iridescent, oily film the alchemists named the “Peacock’s Tail.”
The symbol meaning to ferment something is a stylized caduceus showing the descent of the life
force from Above.

FERMENTATION (2)
In the laboratory, Fermentation is the growth of a ferment (bacterial life) in organic solutions, such as occurs in the fermenting of milk to produce curds and cheese or in the fermenting of grapes to make wine. Generally, Fermentation means working with an influx of new life into a rotting substance and involves several individual phases of digestion, putrefaction, fertilization, yeasting, thickening, and ceration. So Fermentation is about new life, inspiration, and vitality after a period of death and
despair. It is the beginning of resurrection to a higher level that culminates in Coagulation.

FERMENTATION is when anything is resolved into itself, and is rarified and ripened, whether it be done by any ferment added to it or by digestion only.

PUTREFACTION is the resolution of a mixed body into itself by natural gentle heat.

DIGESTION is a concocting or maturation of crude things by an easy and gentle heat.

DISTILLATI ON is the extracting of the humid part of things by virtue of heat, being first resolved into a vapor, and then condensed again by cold.


-Oscar sunny

PS
I will like to see Nick´s photos.
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:47 pm

Bravo!
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:15 am

dejan07 wrote:

In some alchemical texts like the Reusenstein for example, it is said before you let your dew to putrefy for one month you must first boil it in a kettle.The first thing that comes to mind is what will happen with the dew "spirit"?Will it evaporate?

The Reusenstein process does NOT say to boil the dew. It says to smoke the dew, which means to burn wood in an enclosure with the pot of dew in there to absorb the smoke until the water is black from all the smoke.

But I strongly doubt this smoking method is needed at all, since no other process with dew has ever used smoke to putrefy the dew. And Reusenstein does say that his dew process is something he made up himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:19 am

Whenever I leave dew sitting for a month at room temperature in a bottle, it does indeed begin to putrefy on it's own and produce little spongy white globs of material. This is a good sign; it means the dew is putrefying and the spirit is either being created or is being enhanced. Once you see that these balls of white material are no longer growing any larger, then you know the putrefication has reached it's end, and you can begin distillation of the dew to separate the spirit, and get rid of the phlegm, then dry the salts. And then combine salt and spirit, digest for 24 hours, and so on...
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PostSubject: dew putrefaction   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:36 am

I get the same results whenever I leave dew or rain water sitting around for some time. White spongy things everywhere, and that is pretty much it, I leave the bottle sealed up when I do this. Also, when I've put sea salt in the mix (before I knew how to do the Leyden process correctly I did this with only a little salt, not the fully saturated amount) the spongy white materials also form some black and then occasionally some red spots. This of course isn't the way the text describes the work but it was interesting to some extent that a red color formed.

Once with one of these early curious attempts I made that involved salt I tried a distillation. After distilling the spirit out and evaporating to dryness, the white stuff turned reddish after it was evaporated down. It was neat, then when re-dissolved it is also became a slightly reddish liquid. I left this digesting at balneo to see if it would develop enough and now I can't even get the stopper off the flask...lol. There is so little air pressure inside that I can even boil the liquid inside and the stopper won't come off, but anyway it will be attempted again with a different digesting system.

:-)
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:04 pm

it has been said countless times that the dew easily loses it's spirit in the steam when it is heated. this leads me to believe that when the steam escapes from the dew, it is only in the first bit of steam the the full strength of the spirit is condensed into that it leaves in. i have decided on the next full moon, i am going to collect absolutely as much dew as possible (from several different sources, grass, pine tree needles, glass, etc.), and age each different sourced dew in it's own container for about a month. i'm then going to cool it down, set up a simple distillation system, and distill off only half of the dew contained there-in. it seems to me that this would only result in a smaller quantity of stronger spirited dew. i will then reduce that, and reduce that, and see what a potent and amazing substance i can condense all of this dew down to. anyone ever try anything like this, or read anything on it? any suggested reads, and preferably a source i can access said text for free? thank you, blessings and love-
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:04 pm

hello everyone

so about dew putrification . is it essential for dew to putrifay in room temperature for some time before mixing with sea salt ?

thanks ..
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:59 pm

Hi there Felix

Felix_Madhouse wrote:
it has been said countless times that the dew easily loses it's spirit in the steam when it is heated. this leads me to believe that when the steam escapes from the dew, it is only in the first bit of steam the the full strength of the spirit is condensed into that it leaves in. i have decided on the next full moon, i am going to collect absolutely as much dew as possible (from several different sources, grass, pine tree needles, glass, etc.), and age each different sourced dew in it's own container for about a month. i'm then going to cool it down, set up a simple distillation system, and distill off only half of the dew contained there-in. it seems to me that this would only result in a smaller quantity of stronger spirited dew. i will then reduce that, and reduce that, and see what a potent and amazing substance i can condense all of this dew down to. -

I think that sounds a worthy experiment!

Perhaps a cataloging system is in order, to denote different grades or other differences.

I might try doing that myself at the next opportunity, maybe we could add region to the data stream.
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:23 pm

spilo wrote:
hello everyone

so about dew putrification . is it essential for dew to putrifay in room temperature for some time before mixing with sea salt ?

thanks ..

Hi spilo,

This is an excellent question because certainly Nick has clearly indicated in more than one place that putrefying dew, distilling its spirit, eliminating the phlegm, recombining with dried salt, etc..... produces a powerful product, and should be used in processes working with acids, such as the Volpierre process.
So therefore I would think that by at least putrefying the dew at RT before adding sea salt would release more available spirit of dew for Our Dew Elixir process. But the best way of course is to try it both ways.... with and without putrefaction.

LVX... Don
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:54 pm

Quote :
Perhaps a cataloging system is in order, to denote different grades or other differences.

I might try doing that myself at the next opportunity, maybe we could add region to the data stream.


thsuper1:

I was thinking that we could do a spreadsheet with data from various experiments
with details about what type of Dew collecting method, type of salt ,with or without full moon, type of heating apparatus, season, location etc.

So that we could have a well catalog of what works better in this experience.

What do you guys think?
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:05 pm

I think a spreadsheet or some way of organizing/tracking is a good thing and can be useful, given people post alot and it can be a good way to consolidate data as time goes on..Traci
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PostSubject: dew distillation and other stuff   Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi everyone,

The spreadsheet and data collection sound like they would help and also be a lot of fun. I'm up for it (even though lately I've just been working with snow and humidifier "dew" --though these work to some extent). There will always be differences based on our location and time of year since atmospheric chemistry is at play. It would be fun to learn more about these details and have some personal tabulated experience to refer to. Also, as many of you can confirm from doing online research, dew has more concentrated chemicals than rain water or snow, and as ___ mentioned the dew from trees (and grass?) probably has an even greater concentration than that procured from ice collection (or dehumidifiers for that matter).
Also it's great to measure things that we can test from personal experience. One example is in dew/rain/snow distillation. I've just distilled a batch of putrefied dew water down to 2/3 the original quantity and that is about when water started distilling (the "spirit" had all come over). These percentages may change when using real dew that isn't from a dehumidifier or water that isn't rain water or snow. They could be useful in determining a coherent and easy to follow process for all of us.
Another issue is the temperature, will we get a more concentrated spirit if we distill at lower temps, I find I get more of this and perhaps less water coming over if I distill below the boiling point. Then again this takes a while if the condenser I use isn't pumped with cold water.

Anyway, lots of variety in dew and rain as well, and the full moon dew will probably have a slightly richer chemical composition in terms of the desired materials. Full moon dew should crystalize into slightly longer crystals if I remember correctly, it may have more nitre as well as other elements in it.
Some more dew information in terms of dew chemistry and alchemy can be found in the Merelle document in RAMS for those of you who have the cd.

Some things I've observed about putrefying dew: if the dew has some (1/5 or so) sea salt in it it often putrefies with the white spongy materials. If there is no sea salt then sometimes it just deposits a blackish material at the bottom and occasionally --but still seldom-- there will be a spongy material in it (perhaps temperature has something to do with it). If the dew is saturated with salt like in the Leyden process of course it frequently produces the brown sediment. I'm under the impression that the brown sediment is a result of this microbial putrefaction, but perhaps there is another reason for its coming to be. It seems of course that if we are doing microbiology here the halophiles (salt loving) microorganisms will be doing a lot more when the solution is saturated and perhaps less when unsaturated. But I haven't cultured the dew bacteria here so I don't know exactly what microorganisms we're dealing with yet. ...Evidently rain has more microorganisms then dew on the average ... dew pdf: www.up.ac.za/academic/geog/meteo/EVENTS/fogdew2003/PAPERS/C63.pdf

Just one other note, to respond to another member's query about using only dew in the process. I have some snow that I let sit in a sealed container and haven't put any salt in it. After 2 weeks it has a small amount of black sediment which to me seems as though its the raven's color that is considered the first step in various processes. I bet it could go through the process if simply left to its own devices or if put in a balneo, but then again it may take a bit longer than usual and the result may be different from what happens with the salt and dew. Also I don't have a process for this and so we might have to find this out or apply the Leyden process if anyone wants to experiment with this idea.
There are lots of processes that use dew and of course it is a material that contains an alchemical salt and a "mercury" if you will, but many seem to add something else to the dew, so there is probably a lot of room for experimentation here. Of course it's always good to start with what works and what feels right and this is just some interesting musing on my part.

Also, I'll post some photos of these different things soon once I get a little more time on my hands to take some good pictures and get them uploaded.

Best to all of you and thank you for all your insightful posts. I hope the dew collection is going well where you are, I'm looking forward to the warmer weather...soon


Bill
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:11 pm

Something to think about.

Once the putrification process starts does the Multiplication process also start.
If this is true then when you open the bottle to add the salt, would we not release
the spirit.

Blessings,


king MO_1
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PostSubject: Re: Putrefying Dew   Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:32 am

Dear Bro and Sis,
I really don't know about the "putrfying dew" but for what I know it's better if you distill the "only-dew" in a dark room becouse a sun beam can explode it...
And may be for the same reason is important to refresh the elm, the upper part of the distillation glasses, not only to move the work.

For what I know "multiplication" is a term used for the Opus when you already put the metal in the Alkahest and you go on with the heatings. Before of it we can talk about coagulation, digestion etc...

Zosimo
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