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PostSubject: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:49 pm

The future of this forum has been weighing heavily on my heart.

I for my part know how important this website is and how life changing it could be for so many people alive right now. When we open our hearts can't we hear the countless many who cry each night in prayer to their god for just an ounce of the truth we have been given.

So many people would find this forum and become our friends, familiy, brothers, sisters, etc. but only if this forum lasts long enough for them to find it.

That is why I propose the following admission concept which I'd like feedback on.

- The main issue seems to be people joining the forum without a firm understanding on the basics of the dew process and making posts which are redundant at best and "disruptive" at worst.

- I suggest we create a basic admission test that will automatically forward the user to the forum registration page once if they get at least XX% (90%) of the questions answered correctly.

- All the questions can be multiple choice and the study material and questions could be made by Nick if this idea is favorable to him, which I hope he does read this and consider it. (all study material could be in a scrollable field on page one of the test)

..every single person who registered from that point on would have a firm understanding on the dew process as they would not be able to become a member unless completing the test and in turn the test will automatically forward them to the registration page.

It be very easy for me to develop a test like this in Adobe Flash and if this thread isn't junked and the idea is favored by a majority I'd be more than willing to offer my services to make this test.

I know nick is willing to keep this forum alive until at least a few of us make the Elixir and share our stories but it doesn't comfort me that in the interim the creator of this forum is in discontent.

If you want to cast a vote please post a reply with either YES or NO - followed by your thoughts if you have some you'd like to share.

sincerly."solarstone"
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:27 pm

solarstone,

I don't think that a test is something that Nick would have in mind. We have to understand that Nick wants to share his knowledge with the people who seek what we are accomplishing. The whole point is for us to share what we are doing right/wrong with those that come after us. The biggest problem I see is people that ask so many questions without using the search function, or at least reading the entire forum before asking questions. When I first started, I read the entire forum, I understand that it might be a daunting task to do so nowadays, but people still need to use the search function. A test may be a little too much. Nick wants to make this as easy as possible, so a test would only make it more complex.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:16 pm

zulnic,

i agree with you completely. a test might be a bad idea and over complicate things.

if people would just use the search feature before asking quesitons it would go a long way in helping keep things simple for the admin.

id say lets throw all the most common questions in the FAQ section at the top..but.. something tells me if people won't "search"...they probably won't "faq" either scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:30 pm

sorry solarstone if some of my questions triggered some frustrations within you but i wanted up to date answer sense how easy it is for information to be gained in our time and also how would the world work if u had to take a test to be someones little brother/ not sure if u have little brother or sister but they can ask some pretty stupid simple things but in there world it is not.
I thank u for your time and opinions
i say this with no bad intent
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:45 pm

"I am"

please do not worry this isn't because of you at all - this thread was triggered by someone who has now been banned from the forums he was really being troublesome and it got me thinking on how to keep things like that from happening.

..a test would simply imply that everyone read the book and answer a few basic questions to ensure they understand the basics first.

their are many many orders which require passing of tests before being called a brother or sister, even your siblings undergo the test of childbirth in order to enter into the warm graces of your family line

..although i am seeing that more people think a test is a bad idea

so probably i'll end up deleting this thread
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:41 am

i think it would be important to keep in mind that this website was not made for alchemy adepts only, it was made so that this information would be available to ALL who are naturally drawn in this direction, be they spiritual, alchemists, energy-workers, adventurers, etc. It is for those people who want direct answers to their questions, to have them available, because as nick said in some part of the site i was reading, he did not have someone there to give him all the answers when he wanted them and he had to go find them out for himself. i have tremendous respect for the reasons this site was created for, and am deeply grateful for the initiative nick took in taking the time to make it. i do, however, understand how important it is to keep the threads clear of theory, hypothosis, philosophy, speculation, etc. and make sure that what is conversed on is not idealogical or theoretical, but practical alchemy that can be discussed through at least one's experience. i could understand why you think a test would be in order as well, as i have seen in several, several threads the same topics and questions being discussed and asked over and over, all of which have been answered in other threads. i think that under the proper circumstances, a test would not be out of the questions. i would make sure it fits some certain criteria though, including that ALL of the information that the tester is being questioned on is information that is directly available through Alchemy-Illuminated and The Universal Medicine, and that before the test starts, there is a small posting saying the the user attempting to join the forum must first be tested, and that there are 2 links available right here (for example) that contain all of the information you need to study to pass it one hundred percent. maybe set something up that once someone fails it, they must wait a week to take it again, so that some folks don't just take it over and over out of frustration putting in different answers. these are just some ideas on this (though the forum isn't for ideas, i do empathize with this cause).

so in short, under the proper guidelines and in the spirit of the exclusion of none but those who are not willing to read a small book and some information on a readily available website, i do think that a test could help reduce redundancy and people trying to benefit without sacrificing a bit of time to gain knowledge from those of you who have sacrificed years and years of study and work, for which i am eternally grateful and will do my best to give something back to you when i have a ton of gold ready for free distribution lol! i can't directly say yes or no, but this is my opinion on the matter.

thank you for caring so much about this forum solarstone, it is beautiful to see that you are so concerned in the matter of keeping this forum in good order for the benefit of all. just remember not to worry my friend, worrying is giving thought to negative possible outcomes of any given situation, and giving too much thought to anything will inevidably influence it to become physically manifest. stay focussed on the positive and stay in the light, my myspace headline actually says "worry not, for shifting focus towards any negative possible IS a form of manifestation." bless you, you are loved and appreciated- namaste!
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:49 am

Another option is to select moderators to help keep the forums a little cleaner and maybe we could organise some of the posts on the Dew method into a FAQ for new users. I'm sure that Nick already has a few people in mind that he could make moderators out of.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:33 pm

Felix_Madhouse wrote:
i would make sure it fits some certain criteria though, including that ALL of the information that the tester is being questioned on is information that is directly available through Alchemy-Illuminated and The Universal Medicine

The above statement agrees completely with my initial notion. The test is really just a stop-gap which would:

1. filter those who are curious from those who are serious

2. educate those who are serious on the process by requiring them to answer basic questions from the book, the book would be provided on the first page of the flash test

Making it so people have to wait a week to test again would be difficult for me to program.

My guess is that people who are just trying to start trouble probably wouldn't take the time to read the book and answer a "stupid" test anyway.

Thank you felix_madhouse for your kind and true words.

If this forum pulls together, all of us..we're capable of catalyzing a radical shift that will certainly change the world forever. This is something I can feel.

So let's think for ourselves on a solution so that the admin doesn't have to feel like he's babysitting. I'm not sure assigning more babysitters is the solution.

I think the moment he feels this forum is full of a bunch of Nick worshipping heathens geek the site will shut down, like magic! lol -- as it is he's taking breaks from being here..which is a really unsettling thought considering it's his forum.

..so if we can keep the ideas rolling maybe, just maybe..one of them will be used to make the forum an alchemists safe haven as it was first intended to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:47 pm

All this is very thoughtful as it relates to Nick. I know this forum is becoming
a bit more then he possible expected.

I think if we would do a newbee section that is a voluntary type thing for people
with very little or no Alchemy Knowledge. This would definately help.
This section could be handled by a moderator. Basic Alchemy information could be
posted in a FAQ format. The moderator could work with each person up to the point
when they start their Dew/Salt process. They can at any time go back into the main
part of the forum but the best time would be after they have started their process.
This would show that they are serious about the work and what they are doing is
not just some kind of a fad or a fly by night wet dream.
We all know that this takes commitment to the work and time is required.
Part of your life has to be invested in this. If a person is just checking everything
out and this is not part of their life that is fine, but they would be able to determine
that in the newbee section and not clutter up the main part of the forum.

If this is something that Nick would consider I would be willing to pick up the
moderator position for a couple months and then maybe pass it on to someone
else in the forum.

It is important that people be brought up to speed as fast as they can handle
the information.

This would help spread the load of teaching people the basics of alchemy and the
specifics of Nicks Work and the Dew process.

The forum seems to be growing a lot faster now. I know there are those of us
who could help Nick shoulder the load.

This is Nicks forum and that descision is up to him.


Blessings,


MO-1 king
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:26 pm

Yes I love the test idea Solarstone.
I think it is brilliant, and if you make the Flash application, then I will use it. But there might be a problem with the automatic redirect to the registration page. I'm not sure if that will be possible since I don't have control of the inner workings of this forum program.

I did NOT create this message board for just anyone -- I created it for ALCHEMISTS who already have read the book on the Dew process and already have a thorough understanding of the basics of alchemy. It isn't for beginners who have never even heard of the word "alchemy". Those are the kinds of people that seem to be wondering in here, and they certainly should not be members until they have read the forum and read alchemy books, and developed and understanding of the reality of alchemy use throughout history.

All the newbies are welcome to look and read our posts, because the READING part is what is open to anyone and everyone to learn from. But being a member is only for ALCHEMISTS who are working on the actual lab work of making the Elixir and Stone.

So it would indeed be a beautiful thing to have a filter by using this test for pre-qualification to join. And we can change the questions constantly to make it impossible to have a "cheat sheet". That way one person can't send the answers all over to other people.

Or better yet, we should make the program itself switch up the order of the multiple choice questions so the answer to number 5 for instance, is not always C, but sometimes A, B, or D.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:37 pm

Nick, this is something I was just thinking. If membership to the forum is designated by test, then shouldn't all of us undergo this simple process as well, even if we have already joined? I would think it only fair. I would certainly be willing to do this, even if I found that I lost my membership. it would just tell me I have so much more to learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:49 pm

The whole point of the test is to prevent people joining who post questions that have already been asked or questions about things everyone should already know if they are interested in alchemy.

There would be no point in removing anyone from the forum who is already a member, because they have already asked all the questions already, and we've already dealt with those people.

The test is to prevent a perpetual loop of the same questions being asked, or the same type of uneducated people joining who know little to nothing about basic alchemy principles (like salt, sulfur, mercury = earth, fire, water = body, spirit, soul) and the degrees of fire, the use of water and sand baths, and the seperation of the 3 principles from a body using distillation, etc. Those types of things are what everyone who joins should already understand well.

It's much easier to improve upon an alchemy process if you understand the basics of what is happening, and you understand how to manipulate the 3 elemental principles.
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PostSubject: Regarding us that are already here   Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:04 am

Quote :
There would be no point in removing anyone from the forum who is already a member, because they have already asked all the questions already, and we've already dealt with those people.

But what if a willing, self confessed ignorant individual on the acute learning curve has a self adjudged reasonable question.
It would be nice to have a way to question without fear of offending or obstructing the other forums. Genuinely.

Without the Private Message facility it cannot be done on a personal basis either- which for Nicks reasoning was:
"I turned off that feature so people can't privately message each other and share secrets, and spread rumors. If you have anything to say, then just POST IT for everyone to read."

Which I support and appreciate too.

However, the type of thing Magnum Opus suggests seems to benefit all!
A Seperate section/sub forum and so on.
It provides a place to learn.
A place to be able to ask without fear/awkwardness
No admin/programming/writing questions for "tests" << more of your time.
Keeping true to a natural process (our paths...how people arrive here etc)
Through tests you may potentially limit your access to a thriving, creative pool of highly motivated alchemists to be.. through a wrong question..

If people have a place to ask their question regardless of its importance, where they can also view the other forums, aligned with clear instructions regarding your policy. I'm sure that you would find apart from the odd person that will naturally show up on your radar as someone that hasn't read the rules or have and don't care. Either way, they would be on everyones radar as they will stick out like a thumb.. people in those original forums will already have a feel for "who is" and "who isn't" and can easily explain or direct.

On the other hand, I have just spent alot of money on books to further my learnings on these subjects discussed aswell as advised here. If I was asked to take a test, I would happily relinquish my membership to become a content "eyes only" member, and when I thought I was ready, I'd come back for the test.

Whatever, I just wanna learn like everyone else.

Regards
Karitsis
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:52 am

If people want to post whatever they want without any rules, then just go to any of these other alchemy forums and post all you want, about any random subject you want.

This forum has a purpose, and to let any post whatever they want would defeat that purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:01 am

the fact is this test wouldn't stop anyone from reading the forum in fact it would make it easier for you to read the forum since the threads would be of a higher quality and like nick just said if there are questions you can go to any other forum

as a matter of fact you can ask in the science/chemistry section on craigslist and get an answer back within minutes on virtually any question since there are MILLIONS of people who check those threads every minute..

NDC wrote:
there might be a problem with the automatic redirect to the registration page
if you have ftp access to the forum and can see the forums file structure then solving this problem will be very easy, otherwise we'll have to be a little more creative. hmm..there must be a way to remove the registration button somewhere in the admin panel?

NDC wrote:
we should make the program itself switch up the order of the multiple choice questions so the answer to number 5 for instance, is not always C, but sometimes A, B, or D.
i agree, in fact i've already built flash tests before that use this specific feature.

if you'd like to write up a list of questions and answers i can start building them into the flash app..
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:36 am

Hmm
In the Member introductions section there could be a permanent message saying something like:" If you don't know, READ THIS POST!" This post would be the perfect place for a directory of hyperlinks with faqs and important discussions. Members should post a hyperlink with a description of the question answered after starting a new post in this section and not a discussion. I made the mistake of thinking I had original questions to begin with and I was redirected to the relevant area. (This may just be redundancy in one section to avoid redundancy in others)
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:27 am

ok. Best of luck with it.
Nick you know best. You got it this far.
You have my support whatever.

I just get the feeling you have a room full of good people wanting to comply but aren't ever quite 100% sure if their question is valid..walking on brocken glass kinda thing... but as you say.. maybe some of these questions are for other forums. And that is clear now.

Thank you
Karitsis.


Last edited by Karitsis on Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Just Wanna Learn)
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:51 pm

Nick:
You decide. We all support you. We will all be happy to work within whatever
framework you put together.


MO-1 king
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:47 am

I don't have any access to this website's file structure because I only own the domain, and the website itself is hosted on the site which makes this message board.

I can't remove the register button, but I can change the account activation to Admin, so I have to activate their new account for them, and that is the only way they will be able to log in and start posting.

So maybe at the testing page, they will be required to enter the email they used for making their account, then when they complete the test, it automatically emails me their score and email address /user name so I'll know who's accounts to activate, and who's accounts to delete.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:43 pm

sorry if the formating on this reply is weird im responding using my cell phone.


nick that idea is really clever and i shouldnt have a problem setting it up to work that way.


i will try to post an update within the next couple days since right now i am "off-line" and stuck only with my cell to access the forum.


..but i will work quickly..should be able to go live without much delay


"ss"
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:55 am

Here is the basic test outline.

All scores are stored in a database which you can login and check once each night/week, etc. and easily identify the corresponding memberships that should be activated by the email address they entered on their test.

Of course all the questions right now are dummy questions because I have no clue what questions you'll use:



Here is the code to embed this test on the home page, or where ever else you want it:

Code:
<iframe name='proprofs' id='proprofs' height='422' width='440' style='overflow-x: hidden;' frameborder=0 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 src='http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/widget/v2/?id=30064&bgcolor=&fcolor=&tcolor='></iframe><div style="font-size:10px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:#990000"></div>

You'll need the login info to add your questions so if you want to temporarily turn on the forum messaging system I can just drop the login info and basic instructions on how to work the system into your inbox and you should have everything you need at that point.

Other notes..
- the test will never tell the user what questions they got right or wrong
- it will not tell them whether they passed or failed either, making it difficult for people to make "cheat sheets"
- also the test will randomize the order of the questions
- you can have the test choose only 10 out of 30 questions (or, 20 out of 30, etc.) for the test so that some users will have completely different questions than others this way even if they share their answers they may not be applicable for other prospects who take the test as each user may essentially be taking a different test.

These are just some options they are not required options but they are there nontheless.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:03 am

OK, the test looks good!

There is no need for me to turn on the forum messaging so you can contact me. Just use the email button at the bottom of all my posts.



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PostSubject: Re: Forum Admission by Test (?)   Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:30 pm

cool. you've got mail Smile
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