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 Full leyden letter

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trueKabbalist




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Number of posts : 98
Age : 38
Location : wisconsin
Registration date : 2009-01-13

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PostSubject: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2009 9:18 pm

Ok, I have specifically decided to delete this for a number of reasons.

First: I believe I did not make myself quite clear as to what exactly this letter is. It is manuscript 3636 from the Sloan collection in the British Library. The document I have in my possession is a photocopy of those folios. The folios themselves appear to be either a hand written original (unlikely) or a hand written copy of the original (more likely). This means that there is most probably some scribal error inherent in this document. The document was written in English, and therefore required little translation, only editing to make it a bit more understandable to the modern reader.

Second: My intention in presenting it was/is not to establish a definitive from or process here. It was to give all of you access to a unique and invaluable historical resource for your personal examination and study. This has clearly not been achieved.

Third: I do not wish to produce more argumentation, or be viewed as a final authority on the dew process as I have neither expertise in chemistry nor have I even begun this dew process myself.

Fourth: It appears that the letter contains significant variations from what Nick has first taught and expounded. In my mind this is not to be viewed as a contradiction to his experience and study, but rather supplementary and redactive. However, becasue it is clear to me that some here are beginning to take this document in a contradictory light, for the sake of preventing further argumentation and confusion on the part of the inexperienced (or the experienced for that matter), I have removed it.

Now, after all of that
If you still want the document, please go ahead and order it from British library. Once again it is Sloan Mss. 3636 ff 99-115

Finally, if my decision has offended anyone, my deepest appologies, but I think it is for the best.

Blessings.


Last edited by trueKabbalist on Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:46 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : saving my own arse ;-))
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2009 9:46 pm

Thanks a lot for posting this truekabalist

So, I understood by this version that the balneum vaporis ( marie)
is always 40 days , isn´t it?

and the sand bath goes to 12 - 15 days.

That is the difference mainly.
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trueKabbalist




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Number of posts : 98
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2009 10:15 pm

There is no mention of the time lengths following the first circulation/digestion. I think the point is that the signs are in the matter, not the length of time. But, really this is a question for Nick or those who have completed the elixir as they will be able to tell you much better than I would. As it stands now, I am going to have to wait to make the elixir (unless there is a safe fast path I can follow) due to a number of factors out of my control. But I will be staying on this forum and I am looking forward to seeing other people's results. It should be good.
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeTue Apr 14, 2009 11:03 pm

There is no sand bath in the process.The letter says clearly:

"As soon as you have that token, have your dry furnace ready. Set the glass with your matter into the inner wooden globe. Coagulate slow degree of fire and continue it equally for 12 or 15 days and your matter will begin to coagulate and to fasten round about your glass like a gray salt, which as soon as you see, before it is too dry, slacken the fire that it may cool leisurely. "

"Coagulate slow degree of fire" is not a sand bath!!!!

...and the Balneum Vaporis is not same as Balneum Marie!!!



Thanks for the letter truekabbalist!
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 9:08 am

Thanks a lot truekabbalist for the “original” letter. I really appreciate that you share this valuable information with us.

I agree from experience that the ordered length of a philosophical month or 40 days for a digestion is often not long enough. I once imbibed the philosophical Mercury with the philosophical Sulfur and turned up the temp. after around 40 days from 98°F/ 38°C up to about 130°F/60°C . and the mischief happened. The philos. Mercury became volatile and rose and condensed at the top of the vial and left the Sulfur at the bottom. Next time I used 98-104°F/38-40°C and it took over 50 days in order to fix the two adversaries so that an increase of temp. did only partly separate them.

To me in alchemy not the prescribed length of time is of priority but that the desired aim is achieved.

Frank
Smile


Last edited by Frank on Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 10:14 am

Thank you for the transcript Truekabbalist !


I am going to start the heating tomorrow. So, if inside the BM container I just pour water in order to reach only half or 1/3 of the ballon wall, I should get more vapor circulating around the bottle.

Or, I could in fact put a brace like in vapor cooking in order to just let the vapor caress the bottle?

what a dilemma ! Suspect

I will follow my instinct geek
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 10:34 am

Thanks to this letter we now have the solution why the matter doesn’t get black. Because a Balneum Vaporis is a vapour bath not a Balneum Mariae (a water bath). This is, properly, when the vessel containing the matter to be digested is exposed only to the steam that arises from boiling water. As you all know water boils at 212°F/100°C so the first digestion temp. should be around 212°F/100°C. The coagulation temp. then must be adjusted accordingly.

cheers

Frank
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 12:18 pm

Guys,

We need the definition of Baneum vaporis and the dry furnace.

This is really turning confusing now.

For what I understand the 120F / 38 C is an ideal temperature to anything putrefy.

Its a warm enviroment that mircroorganisms will be very happy to dwell in bounce albino albino albino albino

Its like the conditions of the primeval seas of earth, where you had the "soup"

of life from where all things alive came out.

So if the balneum vaporis or marie are different we must agree on a temperature.

the fact that the ballom flask is bathed in vapour doesn´t mean it will go up to boiling point inside.
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi Franck, Very Happy

Why reach 100°? Vapor can appear before that point.

So, the coagulation temp. ought to be even higher than 100° C ?
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 12:33 pm

OK, I 'll be the martyr of the vapor! Very Happy

Nick, any advices before I try vapor system?

Anyway, we have another way to make alkahest now, haven't we travelingman777 ? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 2:40 pm

Hii guys,

I did not want to create a revolution or a riot. I was just following the directions in the original letter.

@ Dejan: On one hand Nick’s way was successful but his buddy’s alkahest did not dissolve the gold. I in no way want to contradict Master Nick. But we could for the fun of it try both temps. simultaneously.
@ Mauro: The definition of the Bal. vaporis can be googled. Funny but it’s a vapour bath. Neither Nick (110-120°F/43-49°C) nor the monk in the letter (212°F/100°C) uses the traditional purification temp.of 104°F/40°C.
@ Chercheur: maintenant je suis le trouveur. Yes vapour starts before 100°C but to keep it up. the water must continue boiling (like in steam distillation). The true question is, is not a sand bath with a temp. slightly below boiling point less stress to handle? Btw the etheric oils are made by steam distillation.

Philalethes had to try everything out himself by experiment. We only have two alternatives. Isn’t that a relief?

Frank
Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 3:48 pm

hmmmmmm! scratch
still dosnt say how much to fill the flask, he just said FILL
and why would the other letters say sand and water bath? our peaople just trying to confuse everyone and has anyone else translated the original letter or just truekabbalist??
what does Nick think of all this?
and what has travelingman777 come across did his pass the test??
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 10:21 pm

Come on guys (and gals)
Please stop arguing like old wives about the freaking temperature!
Nowhere in the entire letter does he even mention a word about temperature.
It's like baking a cake, you see... You can fine tune the temperature of your oven all day long to get it the temp 'just right', but if you don't have a good recipe and the right ingredients for your cake, your cake is still going to taste like crap!
In the end, the art of baking a cake is not about how good you can control the temperature of your oven, but its about putting the right ingredients together in the right proportion. And as someone experienced in baking cakes I can tell that no two ovens are alike. One oven will be a bit hotter than the other... And this is not a problem. If the oven is a bit hotter, the cake will be done sooner.
And for the alchemical process I believe the most important thing to remember is that in the BM the temp has to be just warm and in the sand bath it should be hot but not burning hot.
Now to the real issue..
I think what we have here an old letter probably translated and rewritten from a letter that was written in Dutch. Holland was in those times a safe haven for alchemists who were persecuted all over Europe. To get back to the real question:
There is now confusion about the ingredients..
From my understanding of this, it could be either dew and salt or antimony and niter. As trueKabbalist states in his post that some notes were written by another hand.. whether this was done to try to hide the truth that was so plainly revealed or whether it was done to complete the letter, we do not know. That is the real issue here.


Last edited by jairo on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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trueKabbalist




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Number of posts : 98
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Location : wisconsin
Registration date : 2009-01-13

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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 10:37 pm

Thank you Jairo,

I could not have put it better myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeThu Apr 16, 2009 5:24 am

OK! So let's drop the Balneum Vaporis... Consequently, let's drop the Original letter transcript... And let's come back to BM cheers


All seems to be already said with so kind words. afro
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeSun Apr 19, 2009 9:22 pm

Yeah, i think you are right!
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PostSubject: If it ain't broke.   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeMon Apr 20, 2009 6:53 am

I agree with chercheur01 on this one. There's a lot of wisdom in the old saying, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Sincerely:

Silverdragon07 sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeTue Apr 28, 2009 9:46 am

Dear Truekabbalist, I don't have the Full leyden letter.
I already had contacts with British Library but at the moment the letter is to the photographer...
So happened what I thought.
Too many people concerned.
I, myself, send some books of RAMS to somebody repeating him the mantra "please buy from them" but now, that the D-days are coming, I think that we should help each other.

This is my adress, bonenove@yahoo.it , please tell me what you think about it.
And thank you anyway.

Zosimo
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trueKabbalist




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Number of posts : 98
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed Apr 29, 2009 11:01 pm

I'm truly sorry Zosimo, but I don't think I can. I have already given too much here. Nick has shown the path. Remain patient, work diligently, and you will see your end fulfilled.

I'm not sure who this photographer is.

You should be able to get it from the British Library as I have stated.

What are the D-days?
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeThu Apr 30, 2009 12:43 am

DEW-Days Like a Star @ heaven are coming fast and i live in utah aka best snow on earth for being soooooo! dry but ill do my best
No
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeWed May 06, 2009 12:16 pm

Zosimo, you got mail Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeSun May 17, 2009 8:26 pm

Hey guys, I just got in the mail my original Leyten Letter,

Here for all to enjoy!!!! I will take it out in a week....


Last edited by Oscar on Fri May 22, 2009 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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trueKabbalist




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Number of posts : 98
Age : 38
Location : wisconsin
Registration date : 2009-01-13

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PostSubject: Re: Full leyden letter   Full leyden letter Icon_minitimeMon May 18, 2009 9:44 pm

Yup! that's it! Nice job!

(The scans seem a bit rough, though... Neutral )
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