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 Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process

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PostSubject: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2009 5:29 am

Nick Sez:
Quote :
I'm still baffled that so many people would rather spend endless months doing the digestion of dew with sea salt instead of trying the simple distillation methods with dew described in the the RAMS library. Isn't anyone besides Jamar interested in seeing what happens when you simply distill the dew in the right way?

You can make the Alkahest in a single weekend using distillation techniques.

Okay, so in one of the 3 Salt/ dew processes I am running, I am using distillation in place of the sandbath stage. So the first thing you notice is that you get heaps more dirt-like salt precipitating out of the mix after re-dissolving the sea salt in dew just after distilling it off and drying out the salt at about 300°c.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Saltdew1

Except that no way is this dirt, because firstly I started with distilled, putrefied dew and pure white sea salt which I re-crystallized in hot sunlight. Secondly I filtered out this precipitated “dirt” twice earlier after the first 2 distillations, because I thought it really was dirt. But then after more ‘solve & coagula’, I got plenty more dirt-like precipitate. So I figure this is putrefaction of the sea salt happening and I shouldn’t be filtering it out. I will test a small sample of this precipitate to see if it calcines to whiteness, and then decide to re-distill with low or high temperature calcination of the sea salt.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2009 10:43 am

Thank you for the pictures. Awesome work luce7!
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2009 1:36 am

If you are looking for the best reference in Ruesenstein on dew and distillation, then you should reference Gualdus since he is “the dude”.

Check out p.21, “Menstruum Ad Tincturam Ex Mari”.

Then on p.127... “Gualdus once said, The tincture is nothing other than gold. But this is only the menstruum, a salt, which opens the gold and introduces it into unripe metals and ripens them at the same time. It is important for a man who works in our art to know that he should search for the true menstruum in one thing. It can be found in nothing other than the salted materia, which contains no salt, but which brings forth a salt during putrefaction”.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Saltdew32
This shows the filtered out alchemical Salt of salt from putrefaction.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Saltdew33
This pic shows the black salt after brief calcination. It suddenly glowed and turned black instantly with no smoke.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Saltdew34
Third pic shows the light gray salt after a little longer calcination.
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PostSubject: DISTILLER   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2009 1:14 pm

WOW THIS IS VERY INTERESTING, COULD ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO GET A DECENT DISTILLER FOR A DECENT PRICE? NOT TO BIG NOT TO SMALL
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2009 5:31 am

Dear Luce,
Good job and thank you for the pics.
Some questions (I don't criticize your method I'm only trying to understand):
- instead of the sandbath putrefaction you distill... Can be a good idea but what you think about not-open-the-flask-otherwise-the-spirit-escapes ?
- You mean that putrefaction is no more than a blackening of the matter we can produce with salt-ashes mixed again with the spirit distilled ? How works balneomary digestion with it ? Does the salt disappear in that spirit ?
- You put salt inside (it's a variation fo Actum Leyden path) but you do calcination like in a variation of Ruesenstein. I don't know, may be the result we are engaged with (being an Actum variation) is "melts like wax" than having fixed salts out of this matter...
- Ruesenstein at pag. 108 uses not the salt extracted from the caput mortum (feces) but the gently dried caput mortuum itself and after that distills it with the spirit before produced...
- May be the quick-distilled-dew-way that Fr. Nick writes about is this Rue. method without the smoking start ?
- about the putrefaction of the dew before the process, you think is better to open the bottle or keep it sealed ? And what about the temp. ?

Blessings

Zosimo
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2009 9:24 pm

"I AM" The best websites I found for distillation flasks are unitedglasstech.com and Qglass. I pray every night that someone understands and fully explaines the fast process. Its good to see we have a start.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2009 11:08 pm

There is much confusion circulating about whether to use distillation with the dew/ salt process, as well as how to go about this.
We have much reason to thank Nick, at the very least for setting up this forum and introducing us to this intriguing dew/ salt process. But despite what he says, this is not children’s work. To be successful in the lab, there is no substitute for experience and great patience. To use some colloquial English expressions or aphorisms/ proverbs..... We need to ‘read between the lines’, apply our intuition, and take what Nick and all other alchemists say ‘with a grain of salt’. And there are many ‘red herrings’ to be found. Nick is here to guide us but not hold our hands. If you cannot understand what I am trying to say, you can Google these phrases.

I am no real authority on this process, basically because I haven’t yet come up with the final elixir we are all seeking. So I can only say how I am doing the process based on my years of experience in the alchemy lab, and ‘reading between the lines’ of Ruesenstein and others. As I have said earlier, I am using as my main reference, p.21, “Menstruum Ad Tincturam Ex Mari”, because it makes more sense to me than other passages. Nick may well disagree with my method and comments, particularly since he claims the process can be done in a weekend.

I think we need to firstly putrefy the dew, distill off and use only the first third or half of the distillate. This will contain the most spirit or nitre. The residue we can call phlegm and may be discarded. The distillate then can be saturated with properly prepared salt. Now I think we need to putrefy the salt via multiple brief digestions at 50°c and distillations. The precipitated alchemical salt of putrefaction along with the sea salt, needs to be brought to whiteness. Some people worry that by boiling and distilling dew/ salt that they will lose the spirit, but this is just a misunderstanding. During initial distillation of the dew the spirit is captured by the cooling condenser, and when saturated with salt, the spirit becomes fixed in the salt and serves to gradually volatilize the salt with repeated distillations.

Remember, these are just my views and opinions on this process. There is always a faster way in all alchemy processes when you understand more, and ultimately ‘the proof is in the pudding’, and ‘it aint over ‘til the fat lady sings’.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeThu Jun 18, 2009 12:03 am

Luce7,

Truly appreciate your comments. you might be right about the spirit going into the salt and then volatilizing the salt. With my moon-enhancecd dew that was saturated with salt somehow the salt got up into the threading of the jar lid, as if it was passing through the air and then trying to squeeze through the cracks. I think it has something to do with some extra fire given to it by the moon. Also I might add that there was excess salt sitting in the solution and this took place over the course of about a month during which time the jar was at room temperature. So again, the solution did not come in contact with the lid as far as I know but somehow this salt appeared growing out from under the lid. It really brought home to me the importance of the term "hermetically sealed"

So maybe that's what was happening. The salt was being volatalized by the spirit in the dew. Hope that's useful information to you, and maybe using moon rays will also help us speed up the process as you say.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2009 7:27 am

Hello Luce7,

Your observations are in line with what I have seen also when "messing around" with salt and dew. I've encountered this brown powder you observe and found also that it is magnetic when dried (attracts to magnet). The idea you had to calcine it, is very nice and sth I haven't tried. The properties of this substance are promising but how to continue remains still a riddle for me.

As for the "Menstruum Ad Tincturam Ex Mari" recipie, I think there is a secret on the meaning of the word "Spiritum". After the 9 cohobations, he says "Then they distilled off the Spiritum". Why not to use the word "water" as he does with the rest of the recipie? I speculate that the "Spiritum" is not the water but another liquid that distills over at higher temperature (with white fumes?) after the water has passed. The process of cohobations and then fire raising in order for the "Spirit" to pass over is very common (like in the Paracelsus Alkahest). Just my untested thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2009 11:00 am

And the relevant pics:

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Ssalt110

From left to right:
-The brown dust floats around in the flask
-After some time it precipitates and the water clears
-Some of the brown matter in a test tube
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSat Jun 20, 2009 4:47 am

Hi ‘The Fool’,

Thanks for your comments.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Menstruumadtincturamexm

When the text says, “Then they distilled off the Spiritum”, I think it is referring to the most volatile fraction of the water which is to be separated from the water.

Amazing that you found your powder magnetic. I will have to check it out with my powder.

As far as how to proceed.... As I wrote before, “The precipitated alchemical salt of putrefaction along with the sea salt, needs to be brought to whiteness.” So if the Salt + brown alchemical salt is not progressing to black > gray > white in the next couple of circulations (Solve et Coagula distillations with light calcination at about 300°c in the flask), then I will start full calcination of the Salt to about 700°c between distillations, at which temperature the Salt should glow. Melting point of sodium chloride is 801°c, but our Salt may start to melt at a lower and lower temperature, indicating volatilization occurring. When at whiteness it can be ground with gold leaf and the spiritum, as in the text. This is all speculative at the moment.

Should be interesting to see Nick’s comments on this approach. I may be crazy. Time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSat Jun 20, 2009 9:08 am

I'm glad we can find some common ground between our experiments. If you could validate the magnetic behaviour of the precipitate we can be sure that there is sth important going on here (not an artifact or mistake by my side). In order to isolate the brown powder, I washed it 3 times with water inside the test tube so that much of the salt was removed. Then I evaporated the remaining water from it and found the residue magnetic. When the powder is in the water or has humidity doesn't seem to behave magnetically. In your position, I would check also the white calcined powder with a magnet.

Quote :
When the text says, “Then they distilled off the Spiritum”, I think it is referring to the most volatile fraction of the water which is to be separated from the water.
About the "Spiritum" I have different opinion (speculation). Read the part where Gualdus corrects Schulz:

Quote :
Dear brother, you have misunderstood. After it was putrefied he coagulated it and then he distilled the Spiritum using a condenser
He says he coagulated it (means he drove off all the water) and then he distilled the "Spiritum" using a condenser. It is very unclear on what this "Spiritum" is but one could be attentive for any fumes or moisture coming out when salt is calcined at high temp. I just find it very difficult to believe that the bulk of the water can open up gold, or to make salt volatile.


Quote :
As far as how to proceed.... As I wrote before, “The precipitated alchemical salt of putrefaction along with the sea salt, needs to be brought to whiteness.” So if the Salt + brown alchemical salt is not progressing to black > gray > white in the next couple of circulations (Solve et Coagula distillations with light calcination at about 300°c in the flask), then I will start full calcination of the Salt to about 700°c between distillations, at which temperature the Salt should glow.
Your approach is justified after the observation you did on how the brown matter changes colors with heat. The same color changes should happen inside the flask, so why not to raise the temperature. I have tried four cohobations (without raising temp) of this salt solution that is shown on the picture of my previous post but no color changes observed.
My approach now is to perform the cohobations not by returning the distillate on the salt but by adding fresh water (rain or dew). I hope to see more brown powder forming at least.

One more observation is that in the recipie "Menstruum ad tincturam ex mari" only sea water is used, not dew and salt. But I think it comes very close. The sign of successful putrefaction in my case was the formation of brown "sponges" inside the dew-salt solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2009 6:48 am

Hello everyone.. Ive been going thru the Rueisenstein documents paragraph by paragraph pulling out relevant statements relating to Dew / Rainwater/ snow distillation .. and they always say that once you gather the Dew or rainwater or snow you have to "Putrefy" it by putting it in a covered wood container out of sunlight and allowing it to stink & decay.
Example: page 27 Gualdus said I will tell you how to prepare May dew ..take as much may dew as you can get and pour it into a kettle. First Boil it for a good while and pour it into a little barrel and cover it with little planks of wood. Leave it stand under the roof untill it begins to stink, worm, and decay. then proceed as i have told you, but take care that the water that you wish to extract the salt or menstrum from has been Boiled or Simmered before it is left to putrefy.. Without boiling it you will still get a menstrum and it will still putrefy but it will be weak and bad. However if it has been boiled first, it decays more easily and gives a greater volume of spiritum. (end) This is what the Alchemists want us to do before we distill the Dew /Rainwater / snow ...
Next example: pages 76 & 77 Title "The preparation of the best and finest mentrum made from the shower or rainwater from a thunder storm" the most true and noble menstrum is nothing other than a shower, or rain from a thunderstorm . Believe me, this is the very best materia in the world. take the shower water and let it decay then evaporate it untill it is reduced by half. put it in a wooden vessel until it stinks and is full of worms. then pour it , together with the worms,{ the worms have the menstrum gold in them} into a flask and boil off the spiritum. let the phlegm evaporate and pour the spirit over the remaining materia leave it stand for { 24 hrs } well sealed in a warm place then filter it .. (end)

I dont know how long it would take for the putrification of the Dew but after that you actually could have the Alcahest / Medicine ready in 24 hrs. and then start the gold leaf dissolveing process. do i understand this correctly my friends ? Auggie
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2009 9:31 am

Hi ‘theFool’,

You make some very good points about how to proceed.

Firstly, yes, I will validate the magnetic behavior of the dried brown precipitate, and also when calcined.

Quote :
“He says he coagulated it (means he drove off all the water) and then he distilled the "Spiritum" using a condenser. It is very unclear on what this "Spiritum" is but one could be attentive for any fumes or moisture coming out when salt is calcined at high temp. I just find it very difficult to believe that the bulk of the water can open up gold, or to make salt volatile.”

You point here is well taken and you could be right. I will bear it in mind. This could be happening to some extent when I’m drying out the salt in the flask at ~300°c. Certainly my re-circulated dew now has a strange aroma. Also, early on, I myself had thought carefully about adding fresh dew with each circulation, but felt intuitively not to do this.
I have now performed five of these cohobations without color changes to the precipitate, so now I am about to set up a gas fired furnace to take things further.

Yet another consideration is whether the brown precipitate of putrefaction is necessary to retain at all since some texts, notably one from Raymund Lully with which I think you would be familiar, talks about filtration after dissolution...
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/lully_experiments.html

Extract from the Lully's process:

"Then distil it again by Filter, as before: this shalt thou do so many times, to say, dissolve into Water, and then distil by Filter, and then congeal it into dry Salt, glowing it by Fire: this do without resting until it come to be fat, and that it will melt upon a hot glowing Plate of Luna: and if it will not melt like Wax, you must dissolve, distil, congeal, until that it will come to that point or perfection: and you must be careful, lest that it should melt in the Calcination; for then all your labour is lost. Keep this for a great secret: and such a preparation doth appertain to the Salt, that which is the Riches of this world.”

However, if I’m going to be calcining the salt to ‘glowing’, then I probably don’t need to be filtering out the precipitate.

I really appreciate your feedback and comments. LVX... Don
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2009 10:01 am

Gooday, auggie,

I think you are getting confused. We are talking about 2 different putrefactions here.
First of all, yes, I think we need to putrefy the dew at 40°c for about a week or two until it throws out a fungus-like precipitate. Then distill off the first half of this and use this as the menstruum to saturate with your sea salt. Now you start the putrefaction of the salt by digestions according to the Leyden process, or by digestions and distillations according to other authors.
These multiple methods certainly are confusing, and there is also disinformation and 'red herrings' to deal with. Nick reckons it is very simple and can be done in a weekend. He may be right. But I will believe it when I see it and experience it. Meanwhile I believe success is possible and the challenge itself is enlightening.
Good luck with your Work!
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2009 12:21 pm

This dark brown stuff, (I call it that way because I am not yet convinced of its importance)
falls out as soon as you place your saturated saltwater into the first balneum mary stage. At balneum mary temps this dark stuff falls out within the first few days but after another 40 days and even after changing the flask to the sandbath stage didn’t give me any more of this dark precipitate.

I used unrefined food grade dead sea salt with different types of water.

-water from normal rain (no thunderstorm, it was winter)
-water from fresh melted snow
-water from a dehumidifier placed outside in the morning
Didn’t do the process with dew yet because I don’t want to waste that ½ a liter of dew I have right now.


Anyway all three saltwater solutions gave me the same dark precipitate also roughly the same amount of it, although the brown colour varied from dark to more light brown but that was it.

None of the waters mentioned above have gone through a putrefecation stage prior to the 1st balneum mary stage. The waters have all been collected fresh and saturated with dead sea salt immeadeatly for 4 days. After the 4 daysI decanted the water to leave the undissolved salt behind but I did not filter it.

I was astouned when I first saw the dark precipitate and thought right away that I was on the right track. (after the first few days of balneum mary) I was pretty sure that more would form over time and that it would turn black at one stage however it didn’t.

We came to the conclusion that this stuff wasn’t anything but dirt. Besides that there is no kelp in my salt and after seeing your fotos luce7 I very much recognized the same dark precipitate / salt again.


Some pictures of the precipitate:


Last edited by Wilfried on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2009 12:39 pm

hello luce7 and others I probably should not have posted my last report in this particular section as it doesn't require Any ( sea salt) none at all .. just dew or rain water or snow, that has been putrefied and then distilled . I thnk, thats what Nick was hinting at.. { no sea salt } Auggie
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeMon Jun 22, 2009 6:52 am

Hello Wilfried,

I certainly can understand your skepticism regarding “this dark brown stuff”. However, I will describe my experiences in some detail.

So far I have run 3 dew/ salt processes:

The first 2 are now nearly completed according to Nick’s original Leyden process.
Each flask of saturated saltwater has gone through the Bain Marie and sandbath stages nearly five times in each bath over the last 5 months. Both used unputrefied, undistilled dew and commercial rock sea salt and both showed a small amount of gray to brown “stuff” after the first Bain Marie stage. The amounts of “stuff” have not significantly changed over the last 5 months.

However, with my third process I have used brief Bain Marie bath, distillation and mild calcination with putrefied, distilled dew and re-crystallized sea salt. No precipitate was seen after the first Bain Marie of 7 days, but after distillation and 300°c heat, quite a lot of brown “stuff” was seen on re-dissolution. This I took to be dirt, so I filtered it out and discarded it. I repeated the one week digestion (no dirt), then distillation and brief calcination and re-dissolution. Again another good volume of “dirt”. I filtered it out and discarded again. Then after the third distillation and re-dissolution >> an even greater volume of brown “dirt” precipitate came out, about 10 times as much as seen in the first two processes.
At this point I said, “no way is this just dirt”, so I tested a filtered-out sample which you see on the previous page. “Dirt” normally will not carbonate and go to a light gray salt. I also today tested it with a magnet. It is not magnetic. Maybe there are other minerals trapped in sea salt which are now separating.

Anyhow for me this is putrefaction of the salt with an alchemical salt of salt separating. Like I said earlier, I will now use repeated calcination of the combined salts to glowing in a crucible with more distillation/ circulation and look for what I call volatilization of the salt to a lower melting point.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2009 6:21 pm

As we can see in the Mutus Liber book, the residue or "caput mortum" that remains behind when you distill dew is very important. Once it's dried, then dissolved in the distilled dew to extract the salt, its filtered to remove any of the dark material which didn't dissolve. This is the "lead" and is useless. You cleanse the lead of the Luna, which is the pure salt that dissolves into the dew. You evaporate the dew and the salt which remains is the purified Luna.

This Luna is used to multiply the stone on the 13th plate of the Mutus Liber, which is actually the last plate of the process. The 14th plate is just showing transmutation, but people think it's a crucial final step of making the stone, and they can't "decode" it, so they assume they will never be able to follow the Mutus Liber process.

This Luna is obtained from the dew apparently*before* the putrification of it. And actually, before the putrification you do boil the dew, because when you distill it, that's when it boils. Then the distilled dew is put in a water bath for 40 days, and after that, it's distilled again and the material that remains behind is the "Sun". For some reason the Sun doesn't need to be purified, only the Luna. Most likely because the Sun was made from distilled dew which was relatively pure already, but the Luna was made from raw dew, which contains the "Saturn" or lead impurities.

The Sun and Luna are mixed together in equal proportions and dissolved in fresh rain water that hasn't been putrefied. This mixture is digested for 10 days and this is the end of 10th plate in the book. The 13th plate shows the purified Luna being mixed in equal proportions with the symbol of the sun with a human face. Most people theorize this is the material which was made in the 10th plate. But I theorize this is the symbol of gold that has been dissolved by the Alkahest or Philosophical Mercury produced in the 10th plate, because the 13th plate shows the multiplication of this material to make the finished stone.

But if you do actually use the material produced in the 10th plate, and you never dissolve gold, then you are making the stone from nothing but the salts you obtained from the dew, and that would be pretty amazing. The end result might be the glowing white Philosophical Mercury like Sergio has. But my gut instinct tells me that nothing will happen if you try and multiply the salts obtained from the dew , and only a metal can be multiplied to make a glowing stone from it.


I think the alchemist who made the Mutus Liber book purposely removed a page between the 10th and 13th plates which showed the dissolution of gold with the material made in the 10th plate. So there is a missing plate. 16 plates seems a lot more logical than 15 plates. If he had left that page in the book, anyone could easily follow the process. But by removing it, only an alchemist who already knows you need to dissolve gold with an Alkahest would understand what that little sun symbol is on the 13th plate, and how to make it.

I'm also thinking that perhaps rain water can be used for the entire process instead of dew. Maybe because it's harder to collect enough dew to make a lot of the salts, the alchemist makes you believe you need dew instead of rainwater to start the work. It would be too easy to make a massive amount of the stone if you can use rainwater instead.

But we shall see...

The Mutus Liber is a beautiful little book, and it blows my mind that nobody has been able to "decode" it for 300 years, and those people who have understood it decided not share that information with the rest of the world. I think the time has come to convert the "Wordless Book" into words. I think in the next of edition of my book, I will explain what is shown on each plate, but I won't write it out in step by step format. I don't want to make too ridiculously easy for anyone to do; I want only the people who are already alchemists to be able to fully understand the process. That's why I don't even answer emails from people who aren't alchemist and they ask me amateur questions about simple things like distillation and putrefication and "water baths" and "sand baths". And that's also why I'm making that test people will have to pass to join the forum. I originally did indeed want anyone who read my book to be able to follow the process without having prior alchemical learning, but now my views have changed, and I think only the people who have already dedicated themselves to the art of alchemy should be able to follow my directions and produce the end result.

I mean it's just crazy to be handing out instructions on how to make the Elixir of Life to people who don't even know what the world Alchemy means.


Last edited by NDC on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2009 10:38 pm

Good words Nick. I agree we should only let Alchemists know. I'm just glad I'm an alchemist now because I couldn't say that a little over a year ago, although I'm still not as successful as you are I feel very successfull. There was a really neat thunderstorm here the other day and I had the presence of mind to collect a lot of the rain so now I'm going to try to use that, along with the frost I still have from last winter. Hopefully if I can get a good house or a good place I can complete the whole process. But yeah, I like the fact that you want to keep Alchemy some what a secret. I mean, that's the way it's been for hundreds of years and it seems to be working pretty well. And I just think it's so freaking awesome that we're dusting this old stuff off and figuring it out. It's like a monumental time in history! Thanks again for all you've done ∴N.D.C∴. peace out man

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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2009 5:32 am

My process of obtaining the brown salt was the following:

Before many months I had prepared a salt+dew flask and put it into digestion, expecting to follow the Leyden letter process (The salt was the ordinary white refined atlantic sea salt, bought from an organic store). After some hours, a brown "dirt" formed in the flask and I filtered it out. About two months passed in digestion and I couldn't see any difference, so I thought the Leyden process is not going to work. I "forgot" the flask in the sun for some additional months. Then I saw some brown sponges floating in it and decided to distill it. At the first cohobation, the brown powder was formed.
I washed the powder 3 times with water in order to isolate it; then tested for magnetism using a strong magnet (Nd, not ceramic) and found it attracting.
I have also calcined my brown powder. It passed directly to whiteness without going black (no carbonization). At the white state, it retains the magnetic quality but when I heat it at "glowing hot" it is no longer magnetic.
Luce7, this powder, doesn't behave exactly like your powder at calcination, so that's why you didn't get a magnetic effect probably. Maybe try with strong Nd magnet (if not done already).

Quote :
Yet another consideration is whether the brown precipitate of putrefaction is necessary to retain at all since some texts, notably one from Raymund Lully with which I think you would be familiar, talks about filtration after dissolution...
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/lully_experiments.html
This has puzzled me a lot. Maybe this brown powder is a a waste, or maybe sth useful can be extracted from it as Nick says about mutus liber at his previous post. What I notice also in this recipie is the usage of well water. It falls in the same category with rain water and dew probably.

If someone has some dew+salt sitting around could easily make this brown powder by cohobation. In my case, I got a huge amount of powder after the first cohobation (see previous pics) from only 200ml of dew+salt. Before cohobation the amount of the brown salt in the flask was minimum, even after months in digestion. Maybe I should have continued with the Leyden process by putting the flask in sand bath. I know that somehow this brown salt must be redissolved into the solution in order to continue according to the "solve and coagulate" rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 6:56 am

In order to further confirm what "theFool" is saying >>> that this ‘dirt’ and/or alchemical salt is coming primarily out of the sea salt, ONLY after distillation/ mild calcination, I took my dew/ sea salt #2 process which I began on Jan. 23rd (5 months ago).
This process initially had 50 days digestion at 50°c., then 4 cycles from 50°c. to 93°c. sandbath and back.
Since the original 50 days in the Bain Marie, the solution showed only a very small amount of light brown precipitate at the very bottom of the round flask. You had to look hard to see the ppte. at the bottom of the clear solution. Nothing had changed over the 5 months until two days ago when I decided to distill off the dew for the first time and dry out the salt in the bottom of the distiller. Today I ground the salt in mortar & pestle and added it back into the dew distillate with shaking >>> amazing!! dark, very dirty brown solution.
Note that the sea salt was re-crystallized from the Southern Ocean of Australia, and originally appeared as pure white rock salt from the supermarket.

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Saltdew21

Photo taken day after addition of salt with some still undissolved salt and a lot of 'dirt'/ alchemical salt on the bottom.


Last edited by luce7 on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:27 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 9:43 am

Quote :
Today I ground the salt in mortar & pestle and added it back into the dew distillate with shaking >>> amazing!! dark, very dirty brown solution.
Exactly! Now we are talking about the same thing.

Quote :
This I took to be dirt, so I filtered it out and discarded it. I repeated the one week digestion (no dirt), then distillation and brief calcination and re-dissolution. Again another good volume of “dirt”. I filtered it out and discarded again. Then after the third distillation and re-dissolution >> an even greater volume of brown “dirt” precipitate came out, about 10 times as much as seen in the first two processes.
The fact that you filter out the 'dirt' in each cycle and it keeps forming is quite impressive to me. I wonder if this process goes on forever. According to my observation, the volume of the 'dirt' stops increasing at the 4th cohobation but of course I cannot say this for sure (I wasn't filtering it out, just judging by eye).
I assume you used it's own water (distillate) returned upon the sea salt at those cohobations and not some fresh water. Anyway it is an interesting observation. It would be an amazing discovery if the formation of 'dirt' goes on forever.
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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 11:12 am

I put these text passages from ruesenstein already online but in an older thread here however I think its interesting and moreover important to this thread so here they are again:

Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Ancien10
I really like this most ancient way ...


Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Forneg10



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PostSubject: Re: Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process   Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process Icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2009 6:26 am

I can come up with at least 6 old texts on the sea salt process which speak of the need to calcine to glowing and re-circulating in order to bring the salt to a menstruum for opening gold.

So like I have said before, from now on I will be calcining all salts together (the good, the bad, and the ugly) to glowing in a crucible before recombining with the original dew, until pure white, etc., as soon as my melting furnace is finished next week.

For those interested in plans for building a small firebrick melting furnace which will take a 2kg. crucible to 1100°c using just a propane torch, then I can post plans, instructions and photos of the finished furnace.
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