The Lost Academy

created for Alchemy-Illuminated.com and run by Nick Collette
 
HomeCalendarGalleryFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:55 pm

Does anyone know why I don´t get the brown/grey/black precipitate after 20 days in the sand bath?

I collected dew round the full moon in May with frozen plastic bottles in a plastic tub. I poured the dew into preserving glass jars hermetically sealed and put them into a fridge. After weeks I filtered the dew once and saturated the dew with Atlantic Fleur de Sel. Shook the jar several times and left it overnight in the fridge. In the morning I shook it again and since no more salt dissolved in the dew I decided to filter off the salt . Then I poured it into a 500 ml round flask with ground joint Teflon sleeve and metal clamp (with a screw to fix it real tight) at 130° Fahrenheit into a sand bath. After first or second day slight salt crystallisation on the joint but no increase over time. From June 7, 09 till now it`s still in the sand bath. Good condensation but no brown stuff appeared. It’s as clear as when I put it in the sand bath.

2 days ago I increased the temp from 130° Fahren. to 138° but still no reaction. I measured the temp. of water steam to be between 131-149° Fahrenheit.

Does anyone have an idea what happened?

Comments are very appreciated.

Thanks.

Frank
scratch
Back to top Go down
auggie



Male
Number of posts : 76
Age : 1965
Location : beach house at bellingham wash
Registration date : 2009-03-23

PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:14 pm

Hello frank . The only differences between the way you prepared it and the way i did it was: I used ony GLASS jugs with ice collected in a GLASS pan. I was paranoid about outgassing from plastics. Sounds like you used plastic on plastic to collect your dew.. Also i never filtered the dew before saturating it with sea salt and the third difference.. I did the full 4 day sea salt saturation, I wound up useing a whole lb. of salt then i filtered it like you did.. after 2 days a brown sludge started to form.. My project failed because of rubber stopper contamination. Sad dont know if this helps or only frustrates you Auggie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
bluefloor
Admin
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 352
Age : 41
Location : Kalispell, Montana
Registration date : 2009-02-10

PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:34 pm

Frank,

I would lower your temperature back to 130 f and finish out your 42 to 50 days, then raise the temp up to 200 f. for your coagulating. Even if you don't see anything at 50 days I bet you will after you go to 200. You know that the salt is in there so just wait for it. Hopfully the visual clues will come later.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:46 pm

I have used Atlantic sea salt with similar results. No precip. seems to form after 1 month in digestion. After ~5 months left in the sun, it has formed a thin white layer all over the inside surface (like some kind of short feathers) and some brown sponges floating around. I think this is ok to happen for Atlantic sea salt. Judging from the work of other members, one must use Dead sea salt in order to observe sth more abundant.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:48 pm

Many thanks Auggie, Justin and Fool,

for your sincere rescue attempts.

Auggie: You are not paranoid by taking exclusively glass. You are just smart. I could not find glass vases that are big and even enough on the surface for our purpose. I appreciate very much that you told me how you did it. I only get frustrated when I can’t find out what went wrong.

Justin: You are right the salt is still in the solution. But the liquid should putrefy. Can it do that when it doesn’t get brown or black?

The Fool: Great that you got the same results. But the letters speak of Atlantic salt too. The solution should get black in putrefaction. Dead Sea Salt is sea salt with a lot more unwanted minerals. Or is Wilfried right when he thinks the brown stuff is just dirt? But the letters state that it must get black to putrefy.

Why it didn’t get black is probably due to our filtering the stuff and to a temp. that’s too high for putrefaction.

Nick what’s your merciless evaluation?

Smile

Frank
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:37 pm

Hi Frank,

It seems to me the most likely explanation is that you used a much finer kind of salt and I have also tended to think that the brown stuff is mostly dirt/impurities. I am actually planning to use a cleaner salt next time. I used Celtic Grey. Whether my own experiment is going well I cannot say. The brown precipitate has not really changed.

You also might not have gotten your dew to absorb as much salt as it could since you kept it cold the whole time you were inputting the salt. It can absorb a little more salt at room temperature than at refrigerator temperate.

I am very interested in your Teflon sleeves as I have not yet found a sure way to hermetically seal a lab flask. I don't quite picture how they can work. Since the ground glass stoppers themselves fit so tightly - are they very thin? And what do you think of chemical poisons getting into the elixir? I hope 200 degrees is not hot enough to break down the Teflon. I do know that Teflon pans give off toxic fumes at higher temps.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Thanks Ram for your input,

I think my sea salt was good for the purpose. Dead Sea Salt is not recommended in the letters it is composed of round 40% of other minerals but sodium chloride. I think that explains the brown residue. Why my solution doesn’t rot is probably due to the dew which I filtrated before and after the saturation with the salt. Filtration is not mentioned in the letters. As we learn from Nick (Armand Barbault) and from Gualdo dirt resp. wood is needed to cause putrefaction. I would suggest not filtering the stuff. Damn, there must be a way to putrefy the solution to a real black colour.

Yes I thought about that the salt dissolved better outside the fridge but the I was afraid the stuff might get too warm.

My experience with Teflon sleeves: They are thin and seal after a little salt has escaped at the ground joint. So a good solution but not perfect. This link www.glindemann.net/business_deu.htm#refer gives you a patented solution to the problem of hermetically sealed ground joints. Don’t worry about the chemical and heat resistance of Teflon. Chemicals: very resistant. Heat: They stand 500°F/260°C permanent exposure.

Frank
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:24 pm

Quote :
Yes I thought about that the salt dissolved better outside the fridge but the I was afraid the stuff might get too warm.

So long as you keep it covered, it is OK if it gets warm, but when you decide to open the jar you should have the solution colder and be in a cold room. Since I did mine in March, I simply took it outside at night to work with it. But you could also keep it in the fridge before opening it.

Celtic gray is not dead sea salt, but it is a bit heavy and dark.

Thanks for the teflon info, I'll look into it.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:12 pm

i share Frank's concern that the Temp. might be too high for putrefication.
I wondered why the leyden letter did not say to let the dew putrefy in horse muck.
By the way. Paracelsus described a very similar process. He also says that the salt becomes sweet after putrefication as Nick says.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days   

Back to top Go down
 
No brown/grey or black precipitate after 20 days
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Black and White and Shades of Grey Thinking
» Black puppy - a few days old
» Brown Dwarfs... what's with them?
» Discovery of a very cool brown dwarf amongst the ten nearest stars to the Solar System
» The Ruling on kissing the Black Stone for Women when it is crowded.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Lost Academy :: Alchemy :: Practical Alchemy-
Jump to: