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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 29, 2009 8:48 pm

First of all you must understand there are many ways to obtain the philosophers stone and this dry path is not advisable because it involves Arsenic & Gur as main ingredients.The Gur ist the term often found in old alchemical texts but its actual meanong always remained a big secret.The text itself clearly states that the gur is a combination of sulfurous vapor (exhaled by the earth) and the "astral light" reflected from the full moon.In spring it can be found in the morning dew (before it touches the earth) and in winter in the the snow.I will advise you the dew method for it si much simpler but if you are eager to know more here are the excerpts from varios books that i found about this mysterios matter:


Source: The Ars Brevis by Myriam


Arsenic is the alchemical child of Gur, a mysterious terrestrial gel that is extremely rare today, insofar as very few people are aware of its existence; fewer still search for it, and find it. In ancient times, Gur often was found in mines (especially in lead mines), but the modern practice of explosive blasting prevents its manifestation. It has been called Gur only in a few books. Nature can and will make a gift of Gur to her Lovers, but you must be prepared to collect and seal it in a clean glass vessel, and use it immediately (add gold and heat). Sendivogius (or, Seton, if you prefer), states in The New Chemical Light: "In the winter this unctuous vapor is congealed by the frost". This is true, as I have found it thus (presented to me by the Earth). Otherwise, Gur also fits the description given by Dioscorides for "chalcanthon", and by Pliny for "atramentum sutorium" (vitriol, ferrous sulfate), from which Sulfur Trioxide (the Philosophical Mercury of Albertus Magnus) can be prepared by dry distillation, if you choose to explore in that direction.



Source: J. Grashof ~ The Greater & Lesser Edifyer


Magister Degenhardus, Lullius and Matthesius, in his Serpa Concione 3, write that the material of the metals should be like buttermilk before it hardens into a metallic form, and that it can be spread like butter. They call it GUR, and I have found it myself in mines where Nature has made lead. And if one is also able to make such a material here above the earth, then that should be a sure sign not only that one has the right Materia, but also that one is undoubtedly on the right path. This I can make, praise be to God, with my own hands. When left in warmth an hour it goes into a state of putrefaction, so that it turns black, then reddish, and finally red-brown. The philosophers call it Lac Virginis, the Milk of the Virgin. Thus, if one puts a little Salis Metallici in our water, it becomes like a white milk, and if one puts a lot therein, then it turns thick like butter and can be spread like fat or a similar substance. I have thought it well to mention this, in order that you may harbor no doubts concerning the Materia, and this will be proven to you with the help of the only Creator.



Source: Johann Baptista van Helmont ~ Arca Arcani Artificiosissimi Apertae


Therefore it is to be known, that Nature hath her passages and veins in the Earth, which doth distill Waters, salt, clear and turbulent. For it always observed by sight, that in the Pits, or Groves of Metals, sharp and salt Waters do distil down. While therefore those water do fall downwards, (for all heavy things are carried downwards) there are sulphureous vapours ascending from the center of the Earth, that do meet them. Therefore if the waters be saltish, pure and clear, and the sulphureous vapours pure also; and that they embrace one another in their meeting, then a pure Metal is generated; but in defect of purity, an impure Metal: in elaborating of which, Nature spreadeth near, or about a thousand years, before that she can bring it to perfection; which cometh to pass either by reason of the impurity of the salt Mercurial waters, or of the impure sulphureous vapors, When these two do embrace each other, shut ip close in the rocky places; then of them a moist, thick, fat vapour doth arise by the operation of natural heat, which taketh its seat where the air cannot come (for else it would fly away) of which vapour then a mucilaginous and unctuous matter is made, which is white like Butter; which Mathesius doth call Gur, which may be clam’d like Butter; which I also shew in my hand, above the Earth, and forth of the Earth. TheLabourers in the Groves do often find this matter which is called Gur; but of it nothing can be prepared, because it is not know what was the intention of Nature in that place; for a Marchasite, as well as a Metal, might equally have been made of it.



Source: Jacob Juran ~ Hyle & Coahyl


Gur --- Its sign, however, is this: in the caves of the mountains where the workers labor and dig our gold or silver, a white oil drips out and when it has disappeared in the ground in which there is this Cohyle or the seed and the beginning of the gold, there will be something glowing from the earth like a tear or like a white blood, and like a tear of a plant or a grapevine when they are cut, and it is similar to drops of light water in its seeping out, and after a day or night it will coagulate and be similar to the saliva of the mouth or the milk or water foam. And after a certain time when you see it, you will find it slightly reddish and this redness will increase every day, and when it is redder than coagulated blood, but not yet hard as stone, but soft and like a salve and cream, then the gold in it is completed, but not yet stable in the heat of the fire, and it will not be stable until it coagulates and becomes similar to a hard rock, and this is the word of King Saba, which he talks about in his book Kaba Thabiban, the oil, the butter of the wise. It is a bird in the world and it is white like snow, and it is the bird of all birds since it doesn’t fly underneath the sky and above the earth like other birds, but it comes down from the height of the sky into the deepest abysses in the interior of the earth, and its flight goes through stone and ground, through rock and the abysses of the sea; this bird in reality is the Phoenix of the Wise and alchemists, and if it doesn’t join with the mother of the gold in the earth and this become white and slightly stable, then the alchemists will not be able to complete it in a long time except if it comes down every day and flies into the interior of the earth and hides and unites with the mother of the gold, and when you first see it you will compare it with the seed of men, and its face, if white, will turn red after some time, and it will be soft as butter or a salve; but when its softness changes the gold is born and stable in fire. This Cohyle has no name, just like the Cohyle of the first way has none. But the experienced of those working inside the mountains when they find this Cohyle, they answer and say we have preceded the birth of the son and the completion of the gold because, see, the son is received, and due to our hurry we have found no gold… my son, choose this Cohyle, the butter of the wise men; you can find when it is red like blood, choose it, because with it you will hurry to its end, and if it is white like saliva of the mouth, choose it because with it you will understand even more; therefore when possible choose the red one and the white one, but choose it soft like a fatty substance…

In our opinion, the word GUR is not a German but a Hebrew word... Our matter, then, so writes the author of this process, is one single thing, but of two substances, subject to Saturn, and surrounded by his circle, wherein is found the Humidum Radicale, and a fixed grain of gold, still unhurt, quite alive, with soul and spirit, and it is a congealed vapor and a white coagulated juice, which nature itself has given up, or sublimated, in the Mineris Sol & Luna, heavy by weight, of a metallic kind and quality, and yet not a metal in itself. It can be spread like lard, or a very subtle amalgam, it attaches itself everywhere to the walls, like fat, quite glistening. In every viscous sulphur, or water, there lies hidden in its center a Centrum Concentratum, meaning: The salt of Nature, which is the light of the world, and the true Materia Prima gold.

As proof, take as much of this subject as you like, pour upon it twice distilled dew water, the first time as is, the next time through a dozen double-fine blotting papers, as is correctly taught and shown in the Fama Hermetica mense Februario. Once distilled, let it stand for a few days in digestion, stirring it somewhat every day. Then, out of this subject will extract itself the hidden Centrum concentratum, or Sal Naturae: When this extract has cooled down, filter it, and when the moisture has evaporated from it through a dozen double-fine blotting papers, one will see this Sal Naturae and Lumen Mundi so beautiful, splendid and glistening as the stars at the firmament are always glittering and glistening. But if it is further treated philosophically, it can even be turned into a brightly shining oil.

Often one breaks and finds also cobalt, which contains little or almost no metal. But by digging further in the pits, one will find the same white coagulated metallic juice. It is formed plentifully in nearly all mines, especially where there is gold and silver, but that which is mined in Hungary is to be preferred to all others. Our earth is gold and silver, but not the natural and common. It is of one thing and root. Astrum gerit masculinum et femininum genus tamen exinde persublimationem Archael fit crystallus, qui habit naturam aquae, cum quaignis et Sulphur redigenda sunt in gratiam. Miners do not heed it, nor is it of use to them in their work. It is generally called by them: aurum immaturatum, seu astrum Solis, semen Solis, metal seed, also sometimes Arabian gold. When they find such matter, they say, we have come too early or too late, dicitur etiam. Before it congeals into a metallic form, it is like butter and can be spread like butter. The first matter of metals is not Mercurius vivus, but a sticky, sulphurous vapor, and a viscous water, in which viscous water the three Principia: Sal comm., Sulphur and Mercury are gathered. This matter is known to all true philosophers, and it is the true Agens and Patiens.



End of part one...
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 29, 2009 8:49 pm

Part two:

Source: Anton Kirchweger ~ The Golden Chain of Homer

Note here that Arsenic is a subtil dry mercury for the formation of the red metals chiefly. Modestin Fachs and Tugel believe Arsenic to be unripe Luna, and Luna to be fixed Arsenic. Tugel confirms it by experiment: Lead from Mercury, Tin from Arsenic, Silver from Arsenic, Iron from Mercury, Copper from Mercury, and Mercury from Arsenic...

My teachings will repel many and they will be astonished when they learn that I prepare the gold with arsenic...

Sulphur removes all the poison from arsenic and antimony. If a man were to reflect on the true prime origins of gold and other metals, or if he were to take the Mineram Solis, which is one with the other metals, he could immediately change it back into its prime matter. From this the reader learns of the properties of arsenic, how quickly its poison can be removed and thus it is transformed into a better substance.

The first constituent of all marcasites and metals is arsenic. In what mineral or metal can we find common quicksilver except very rarely and accidentally? Instead, you will find Arsenicum and sulphur in each of the aforementioned, be it little or much, but usually in quantity.

See Jo. Agricola in Popp. Nuremburg 1681, 4, P. II, Tr. de Arsenico, P. 997, where it is written: "Without a reason, one should not be surprised that this mineral is so closely related to Sulphur, that they are almost sprung from one spring, but in their effects they are almost opposites... It is a King of Medicine when it is corrected, one grain or less of it has the most salutory effect in countless diseases. It is penetrating and tinges the blood and vital spirit so intensely that it becomes capable of dispersing even the most pernicious enemy from the body; which other medicines, lacking this power, can never accomplish. Therefore, you must search in every way to find out how its poisonous nature can be allayed...".

Isn’t it by experience that we know that gold and silver buried under the earth are aroused when the salty moisture of the earth wakens the sour spirits of gold and silver into action; that is why one has found only their electra or even only some dust instead of gold and silver. When therefore gold and silver have been put in places where many arsenical or marcasitical vapors evaporate, they are sooner destroyed by Nature. We can see this in the Art, which must necessarily follow Nature in just these steps, when we melt sulphur, arsenic and marcasite together and let them flow, then put glowing gold into it, so that the gold turns into all powder which is then immediately dissolved by the salts or salty vapors or spirits and reduced to its first nature.

Likewise with metals or minerals: the medicine or tincture does not intend to heal the sulphur, arsenic or marcasite, but the metals, and even if it were thrown upon sulphur, arsenic or marcasite, it would not turn them into pure gold and silver, but into a pure solar or lunar nature. Therefore, such a solarized sulphur, arsenic or marcasite can also be made into gold or silver by digestion and maturation, but not into pure gold and silver as metals are transmuted by casting and melting, etc.

Gur --- The portion of the earth which the corrosive [vapor] has been unable to dissolve completely, is made subtle, dirty, and greasy in part. Alchemists call it a metallic gur, or the first matter of metals, but wrongly so, because it is the first and nearest matter to sulphur and arsenic. When arsenic becomes marcasite, that then is the very nearest matter to metals, because metals spring directly from marcasite and not from this gur which is only the distant matter of metals. This gur or dirty substance is made ever finer by the rising corrosive vapors and is more and more dissolved. And the more it becomes subtle, the more it congeals the corrosive within itself, and that makes it sulphurous and arsenical. This arsenic is increasingly ripened into marcasite, and the marcasite in turn into metal. Such is the progress of metals, which we intend to show ever more clearly.

When the vapors rise into the cracks and crevices of the rocks, they turn into water because of their condensation (while more and more rise unceasingly). This water contains the intermingled spirit of salt and saltpeter, which spirit is known by all alchemists to be corrosive. Here, however, in the center, it is surrounded and diluted by much Phlegma and water. Such spirits adhere to rocks and earth by their sharpness, corrode and dissolve them, make them subtle, swollen, sticky, greasy and dirty, and turn them into a moist gur which lies between the rocks and the earth like meat interlarded with bacon. But often it penetrates outside due to the swelling and adheres to the walls, as may be seen in old galleries and mines. The more dissolved and refined such dissolved earth becomes through vapors and salty spirits, the more it swells, pressing and driving out the remaining moisture by this swelling. In turn, this moisture runs back to the center or elsewhere into other corners and holes of the earth. This swollen earth or gur now has no peace, because the continually rising and subsequent vapors are attacking it ever more, adhere to it, congeal and coagulate with the earth; and the more such corrosive vapors follow, the more fiery, sulphurous the earth becomes. The more sulphurous it becomes, the higher it swells, and more moisture it drives off, and becomes the drier the longer it lasts. The drier it becomes, however, the more the sulphurous component part loses its combustibility and thereby acquires the name of mercury, or rightly, arsenic, which has originated in the sulphurous acidity. It no longer burns, but is still volatile. This volatility, however, is gradually more bound by the central heat between the stones, and thereby congealed and coagulated, so that it is transformed into a marcasite. If the digestion or earthy central heat is strong, the marcasite is congealed into a metal; but if it is weak, it remains what it is or becomes a marcasite or arsenic choke-damp, or pyrite.

Now one must know that when nature has got so far that she had made sulphur or arsenic, she has already filled the crevices and chasms and dissolved and caused so much earth to swell that the crevices are full to the brim. Then the earth does not admit any more vapors or moisture, and is no longer in dissolution. Now begins the dessication, fixation and coagulation, and passes from there to a metallic nature or fixity.

Just as the earth and rock are the mother and foundation, or the vessel, of minerals in which fossil ore bodies are made, so the vapor is their food. Vitriol or vitriolic gur is the root, sulphur and arsenic the stem, marcasite the flower or blossom, metals, the seed, the completed birth and offspring.

That vitriol is first born of sulphur and arsenic can be proven by gur, if it is lixiviated, filtered and coagulated. Then one finds a vitriolic salt after the kind of earth that has been dissolved. That sulphur or arsenic originate in this way, can be seen during dismemberment. When the Acidum or the sour vapor is driven by fire, it distills first. It is followed by the flowers of sulphur, then the arsenic, then the volatile marcasite. The fixed marcasite flows into a regulus and slag. That marcasite is made from arsenic, can again be seen in dismemberment, because bismuth and antimony driven into flowers are quite arsenical and volatile, and also have the total nature and quality of arsenic.



Source: John Webster ~ Metallographia: Or, An History of Metals


III. Of the Generation of Metalls, and whether they Grow, and have Vegetability --- The author of Arcae Arca. [Theatr. Chym.] from Lully and Mathesius tells us this… ‘That the matter (viz. of Metals) before it be coagulated into a metallick form, is like unto Butter made of the Cream of milk, which may be clamed or spread as Butter, which he (he meaneth Mathesius) calleth Gur, which I also (saith the Author quoted) have found in the Mines, where Nature hath produced Lead’. To ratifie this, and to put it forth of doubt, I shall relate what I my self have found, and how have some pounds of it by me. Inquiring after this Gur of all persons that I could hear of that wrought in Mines, there could some of them tell me, that often in the sudden breaking of some Stone, there would be a liquor spurt forth bright and shining, which they regarded not, because they knew no use nor benefit to be made of it, nor knew how to save or keep it. At last, meeting with an ingenious young man, whose Father had all his days been experienced in working in the Mines of Lead in Darbyshire, and he therein also had been trained up from his young years: one whom I had formerly much imployed in seeking and procuring for me, several sorts of Oars, Minerals, Stones and Earths, wherein I had found him very faithful and diligent; and discoursing with him about what liquid juices or waters he had ever observed in digging in the Mines, and instructing him in all that I understood of such things, according as I had read in Paracelsus, Helmont, or other writers, he thought the thing might be feasible. So according to my directions, providing himself with some wooden dishes to take with him, it was not very long ere he brought me a large quantity, found in a trench; where the he got good store of Lead Ore, such as the Miners account the best for their purpose; that is, such as will most easily run, or melt, and yield the most Lead: the description of which I shall here give as fully as I am able. It was (as he most faithfully affirmed) when he first broke the hard stone in which it was enclosed, some of it especially very thin and liquid, so as he could hardly preserve it; and the other as soft as Butter, and the inmost part of that he brought was as soft as Butter, to my touch and feeling, and the outside more hard; for the longer it lay to the air, the harder it grew. It was of a grayish or whitish colour, and would spread with ones finger upon a table, or smooth piece of wood, as like Butter as could be, but not so fatty, or greasie: and as Helmons saith, was like unto soft soap, but most of it something harder, for he had brought it near two miles to me, and though he had made haste, yet it had hardened by the air in the way. He also brought divers pieces of the hard grey stone, in whose holes and cavities it lay, and some of it in the midst, little pieces of lead, bright and pure Ore. So that if a man may give any reasonable conjecture, one would verily imagine tat the piece of Lead inclosed in this soft matter, did in continuance of time, change, or ripen it into its own Nature; which I will not positively affirm, but commend it to further trial and inquiry, for there had need be any careful experiments, before an Opinion be raised from the. But I remember that the Colliers and those that seek for Coal-mines, find in their boring or other working, such matter as they call Crow-stone, Coal-stone, and Soap-stone; the last of which is a black substance like fat Clay, and which (as the Gur) spread like Butter, but will soon harden in the air, into an hard mater that will hardly be cut with a knife, and somewhat harder then the other by: which both make me more and more admire the skill and knowledge of Paracelsus and Helmont, and to wonder at our ignorance in these things.

An observation agreeable to this (as I conceive) that I have related of mine own experience, is that of Helmont, which he gives us thus… ‘For it often happeneth that a Mine-man in the Pits breaking stones, the wall is opened and shews a chink from whence a water hath flowed of a somewhat whitish greenness: which by and by hath thickened, like soft Soap (I call it Bur) and forthwith the soemwhat greenish paleness being changed, it groweth yellowish, or whitish, or more fully greenish. This I would have the Reader to consider seriously of, in comparing it with the former relation; and to note, that whereas he calls it Bur, I suspect the Print is false, and that it ought to read Gur.



By the way the script that i posted was not complete it was only the excerpts from it.Here is the link for the whole script:

file:///C:/DOKUME~1/huzgfuz/LOKALE~1/Temp/Rar$EX00.734/alchemistscript/alchemistscript.htm
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 29, 2009 8:57 pm

I´m sorry, i posted the wrong link.Here is the right one:

http://rapidshare.com/files/191367144/alchemistscript.zip.html
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2009 1:06 am

thanks,dejan07, wow ,,ok now i got some of it,,,,,but what could i do or is it possible to get dew in the winter? is there a way?or people use snow?or just wait for may maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2009 2:12 am

Some users of this forum have developed interesting techniques about dew collection in winter.One uses a bucket of frozen water placed outside surrounded by ice bags,the other uses a dehumidifier,another gathers the fresh snow before gets dirty and even one uses his trampoline Shocked to collect the dew... but in the end they will all fail in attempt to complete the "Great Work" because most of them dont understand what it means "the wind carries its seed in her belly".It means that the "seed" is to be found in the earth's vapours which ascend with the wind to the heavens where they absorb the moonlight (the astral fire or secret fire) and together they descend to earth to form the morning dew.That is the great secret.Therefore the dew must be collected on a open ground(soil,meadow) where the earth can "breathe" and under a full moon.
That is exactly what the Actum Leydens letter says:
"The full of the Moon is a good season, afterwards it will be hard".

I advise you to wait until a appropriate time and make the haste slowly. bounce
Until then it will be known what the others have achieved with their ice bags and trampolines...
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2009 9:05 pm

I agree its the earth's vapours which ascend, maybe by the act of the moons gravity pulling on the vapour along with the tides of the earth . The fixed made volatile then the volatile made fixed ,EARTH made volatile by VINAGAR or MERCYRY becomes MERCURY penetrative and subtle from what i have read ,this theme runs through all three kingdoms ,and in the mixing of the three
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 30, 2009 10:08 pm

Precisely my thoughts.
The moons gravitational pull upon "waters" (vapour of course is a form of water, a "spirit" of water) is at his peak at the full moon when the earth exhales largerst quantities of vapour (seeds,gur) and that is why the dew is most potent in this season.Dont forget that the vapours alone are not enough to produce the dew...vapours need the moon light (astral light) to be transformed into liquid state(philosophical mercury or silver).

The most people think that the surface cools by radiating its own heat, atmospheric moisture condenses at a rate greater than that at which it can evaporate, resulting in the formation of water droplets...thats produces only moisture not the dew that we need.

You will never find the dew beneath cloudy skies but only then when the sky is clear.
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 04, 2009 5:40 pm

I haven't had a chance to read ALL the entries in this thread, but this topic is right up my alley, and I wanted to add something, if I may.

For those of you interested in Biblical texts as being references and allegories for alchemical processes, then read again the passages pertaining to the birth of Jesus.....except this time, imagine Jesus as being a substance that goes through transformations. His entire life is chronicled in this way....even the WORD "crucified", may make you kick yourself that the entire account was so obvious, yet nobody has noticed it.

I won't get into debates about whether Jesus was an actual person or not, because I honestly do not know. Perhaps he was, or perhaps his life was used to hide these allegories....I know that Jesus, the SUBSTANCE, is real.

Now, when reading those passages, one must take into account that Mary, the Virgin, is another reference for Venus or even Virgo, (since I'm not skilled in astronomy, I am uncertain as to which of these the passages are actually referring to, but I believe it to be Virgo, based on a documentary I watched recently called "The Star of Bethlehem", which is very well researched). The "angel" coming to Mary to tell her she was with child and would have a virgin birth now makes sense. The magi bearing gifts now makes sense. The birth of Christ under the star, now makes sense.

The "birth" of Christ at Christmas, I believe, either signifies when the process should be started, or either when it should be completed, but either way, Christmas is significant in astrological terms as well. All of the teachings of Jesus are filled with hidden wisdom beyond just moral codes of conduct. The fact that he had 12 disciples should tip everyone off as well....it is the counterpoint to the 12 tribes. Old Testament vs. New Testament. Both are telling the same hidden story, laced within different "cover" stories. In the Old Testament, it was Manna....in the New Testament, it is Jesus.

Then there's the 40 days in the wilderness that Jesus took....the last supper...the trial...the torture....the "crucifixion"....the burial....the resurrection after the third day....the ascending to heaven....and finally, the promise of a return. If one really DIGS into these texts, based on what they know of alchemical processes, it then becomes crystal clear that this is truly a work of genius. Hidden right in front of our eyes for thousands of years, yet no one knew, except those already in the know.
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 04, 2009 6:06 pm

I always find it intriguing when I run across lyrics or poems that didn't strike me until I learned about alchemy. Octavio Paz, a Mexican 1990 Nobel prize winner in Literature, wrote several pieces that eluded to his knowledge of alchemy. I discovered this particular one through a young composer named Eric Whitacre, who set these words to beautiful, and even haunting at times, choral music. You can listen to it here, if you like....my favorite part is when they sing "eyes of dream water...", and towards the end "...if you open your eyes..."



http://www.airmp3.net/download/whitacre/mp3/dl_81eb7_20

Here are the words:

WATER NIGHT

Night with the eyes of a horse that trembles in the night,
night with eyes of water in the field asleep
is in your eyes, a horse that trembles,
is in your eyes of a secret water.

Eyes of shadow-water,
eyes of well-water,
eyes of dream-water.

Silence and solitude,
two little animals moon-led,
drink in your eyes,
drink in those waters.

If you open your eyes,
night opens, doors of musk,
the secret kingdom of the water opens
flowing from the center of night.

And if you close your eyes,
a river fills you from within,
flows forward, darkens you:
night brings its wetness to beaches in your soul.
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 04, 2009 7:03 pm

Thanks for posting about the clues and allegories in the new testament but would you be so kind to explain in detail what they mean?What substance is Jesus?What is the meaning of he last supper...the trial...the torture....the "crucifixion"....the burial....the resurrection after the third day....the ascending to heaven....
We are eager to know.
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 04, 2009 10:14 pm

dejan07 wrote:
Here is the second part of the research that ive done concerning the usage of the dew/seasalt methods in the "traditional" alchemy.In this post i've been researching the religious texts like The Holy Bible, Zohar and teachings from Zoroaster, which many alchemists of old school found to be of great value.The book that originally gave me this idea was "The Alchemy Key - Stuart Nettleton" and the majority of this post are directly excerpts from his book.This book also gives many other sources which was my starting point in the research.
In the first excerpt i am dealing with the famous "Manna" which i believe to be made of seasalt(found in dry lake beds in the deserts in Sinai) mixed with
the morning dew which was falling from the sky during the night.
The second excerpt deals with with biblical king Melchizedek and the third about a Zoroaster.For the other sources i didnt have enough time to prove if they use dew/seasalt method or only dew or salt as ingredients.

Maybe this is not important, but I think which "sea salt" they meant that was found in "the dry lake beds in the Sinai desert".. I think it's a ancient Egyptian sort of salt called Nitre aka Nitrun aka Natron, I thought it was interesting:

Pliny on the Production and Uses of Nitre

Pliny the Elder, Caius Plinius Secundus lived from 23 to 79 CE.
He wrote his encyclopaedic Natural History towards the end of his life.

And here we must no longer defer giving an account of nitrum (seemingly potash or soda) ......
In Egypt, again, it is made artificially, and in much greater abundance, but of inferior quality, being tawny and full of stones. It is prepared in pretty nearly the same manner as salt, except that in the salt-pans it is sea-water that is introduced, whereas in the nitre-beds it is the water of the river Nilus; a water which, upon the subsidence of the river, is impregnated with nitrum for forty days together ...... On occasions when there has been a fall of rain, a smaller proportion of river water is employed.

As soon, too, as any quantity of nitrum has formed, it is immediately removed, in order that it may not melt in the beds. This substance, also, contains a certain proportion of oil, which is very useful for the cure of scab in animals. Piled up in large heaps, it keeps for a very considerable time...... The lightest part of nitrum is always considered the best, and hence it is that the froth of it is so much preferred. Still, however, when in an impure state, it is very useful for some purposes, colouring purple cloth, for instance, and, indeed, all kinds of dyeing. It is employed, also, very extensively in the manufacture of glass, as we shall more fully mention on the appropriate occasion.

The only nitre-works in Egypt were formerly those in the vicinity of Naucratis and Memphis; those near Memphis being inferior to the others, the piles of nitrum there prepared being as hard as stone, and many of the heaps having become changed into rocks. When in this state, vessels are made of it, and very frequently they melt it with sulphur on a charcoal fire. When substances are wanted to keep, they employ this last kind of nitrum.

In Egypt there are also nitre-beds, the produce of which is red, owing to the colour of the earth in the same locality.

Froth of nitrum, a substance held in very high esteem, could only be made, according to the ancients, when dews had fallen; the pits being at the moment saturated with nitrum, but not having arrived at the point of yielding it. On the other hand, again, when the pits were in fall activity, no froth would form, it was said, even though dews should fall. Others, again, have attributed the formation of this last substance to the fermentation of the heaps of nitrum. In a succeeding age, the medical men, speaking of it under the name of "aphronitrum," have stated that it was collected in Asia, where it was to be found oozing from the soft sides of certain mines--the name given to which was "colyces" --and that it was then dried in the sun. The very best is thought to be that which comes from Lydia; the test of its genuineness being its extreme lightness, its friability, and its colour, which should be almost a full purple. This last is imported in tablets, while that of Egypt comes enclosed in vessels pitched within, to prevent its melting, the vessels being previously prepared by being thoroughly dried in the sun.

To be good, nitrum should be very fine, and extremely spongy and porous. In Egypt, it is sophisticated with lime, an adulteration easily detected by tasting it; for when pure, it liquefies immediately, while that which has been adulterated, remains undissolved sufficiently long to leave a pungent taste in the mouth. It is burnt in a close earthen vessel, as otherwise it would decrepitate: except in this last case, however, the action of fire does not cause it to decrepitate. This substance neither produces nor nourishes anything; while, in the salt-pans, on the other hand, we see plants growing, and the sea, we know, produces immense numbers of animated beings, though, as to plants, sea-weed only.

It is evident, too, that the acridity of nitrum must be much greater than that of salt, not only from the fact last mentioned, but from the circumstance also, that at the nitre-beds the shoes wear out with the greatest rapidity; localities which are otherwise very healthy, and remarkably beneficial for the eye-sight. At the nitre-works ophthalmia is a thing unknown: persons, too, that come there with ulcers upon them experience a rapid cure; though ulcerations formed upon the spot are but slow in healing. Used as a friction with oil, nitrum is a sudorific, and acts emolliently upon the body.

That of Chalastra is used as a substitute for salt, in making bread, and the Egyptian nitrum is eaten with radishes, it having the effect of making them more tender; though as to other edibles it turns them white and spoils them. To vegetables it imparts an additional greenness.

Source:http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/pliny_nitre.htm

More info:
A Lexicon of Alchemy by Martin Rulandus
http://www.rexresearch.com/rulandus/rulxno.htm (go to Nitrum)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=qNOB-vcob88C&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=nitrum+Aphronitrum&source=bl&ots=RV_AyJbYaq&sig=KJXTLT9N__Y0jIORRby7fnaBwl8&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htm

http://www.balashon.com/2008/07/neter-and-nitrogen.html
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 06, 2009 7:52 am

Well traxl i think this is very important cause Pliny is a historical source and not a religious one.I didn't expected to find anything of value in so-called "valid" history about alchemy so i ignored them completely, but then here you are... From now on i will be more careful with my prejudices. study
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 06, 2009 6:09 pm

Dejan07,

Forgive me, as I've been away from my PC. I would need some time to construct a proper reply to your request, if you wouldn't mind waiting. I am also still researching, so there are areas that I still cannot fully understand or explain, simply because I am still learning to decipher biblical texts per alchemical references. There are many scriptures to support what I've said, not the least of which are a few off the top of my head:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(This was not an arrogant boast of a human, God-incarnate or not, that suggests that none of us can know God unless we go through Jesus first....when thinking of Jesus as a substance, The Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir of Life, etc., then it makes sense.)

Matthew 19:13-14 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
(Children are not to be kept from this knowledge.)

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
(This one is obvious!)

It occurs to me that all the conservative talk about "being saved" is misunderstood. Conservative Christians believe that all they have to do is to ask Jesus into their hearts and they will be saved. Well, perhaps this is so, especially if Jesus is a substance....otherwise, none of it makes sense. However, all of the "saved" Christians aren't really saved at all, since they practice merely lip service, so to speak.

Matthew 7:7-10 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

(Notice the WORD USAGE in the above scriptures! It uses the stone and serpent imagery on purpose! This is worded in such a way to imply that whoever would give these things to their child if they asked for bread or a fish, would be crazy. When in reality it is stating, which men among you WOULD give a stone, such as the philosopher's stone, in place of bread, or a serpent in place of a fish? The serpent is very significant, as I'm sure you know. So this question is not a bad one....it's hidden right in front of us, and is blatantly asking who among us is knowledgeable enough to do such things? Those that have not sought the way, have no clue to the deeper meaning of the questions that are put forth, thus it would not make sense to the average reader, except to sound absurd.)

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

(Consider what the above passage implies. It's telling us that FEW will find the way!)

Through all the miracles listed in the New Testament of the accounts that Jesus performed, all of these can be matched up directly to the uses and abilities of The Elixir of Life. "Jesus" made a blind man see again, by "spitting" in some dirt and making a salve with it and rubbing it on the eyes of the blind man. Jesus cured all ailments. Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead. Jesus multiplied fishes and bread for thousands. Jesus pulled a gold coin out of a fish's mouth to pay taxes, (he manifested gold from a fish). And on and on....

If you would like more, please be patient with me....I've only just begun to try and decipher the latter life of Jesus in relation to alchemical processes. But take a quick ponder of significant and obvious events.....Jesus fasted in the wilderness for 40 days. What in alchemy requires a 40 day process? Smile Jesus was "crucified" on the "cross". The cross is an astrological reference to the four cherubim that Ezekiel saw in his visions. Quite literally, if one were to look at the astrological circle from above, the four cherubim would make a cross. And this goes much deeper, but you get the idea.

Hope that helps! Basically, I encourage everyone to get past the Bible as some church book full of condemnation and judgment, and open it. Study it for the rich allegories it holds, because so far, everything I've read in other books has been echoed in the Bible. The other books have only helped me to decipher it.....so in that respect, I am still learning, but it is fascinating none-the-less!
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 06, 2009 6:13 pm

Robert Nelson is the man who owns RexResearch.com and he is also wrote the alchemy book which describes the dry path with arsenic and Gur, and he sites all the alchemy books that talk about it. So that is why his movie script on his website talks about Gur so much.

When I use to be in contact with him through email, he was always very into working on the arsenic path and was determined to figure it out to completion. He actually did work with pure arsenic and almost poisoned himself.

But the arsenic path is only for a fast dry way, and there is no benefit in doing that path except for the quicker time. For me the risk of death isn't worth the speed of having the stone so fast. Waiting in patience and following a simple path with dew just makes far more sense.
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http://alchemy-illuminated.com
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2009 9:23 pm

Emerald,

It sounds like you are onto something there. I didn't realize that the bible was actually a reference to alchemical text. I don't think they could have found a better way to hide it, then right in front of everyone's eyes. Well, they say that's the best place to hide something. Right in front of who you're trying to hide it from. They did a good job with hiding it. You ever read that book called The Bible Code by Michael Drosnin? Well, that guy had it all wrong, there is a code hidden in the bible. It's called Alchemy. Only a few will find the way? Yes, only a few will find the way. The process of dew and sea salt takes 40 days right? Hence the 40 day fasting you mentioned Jesus did.
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2009 11:44 pm

Hi, I know this conversation's moved on but this may interest you or add weight to your thoughts.
If not, it's at very least an understated coincedence to say the least.

I was just reading through this thread from the beginning and got to the "Manna" part on page 1 - and it reminded me of an old friend. I won't go into why. However, what do you think:
IK and KI right?
Manna and Annam yeah?

When you get to this link click on "Annam (name) A FEMALE given name of Arabic Origin"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annam

Hope it helps
Karitsis
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PostSubject: Re: True, without error, certain and most true   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 28, 2009 8:14 am

Look what i found on the web.

http://www.may-dew.com/May-Dew.html
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PostSubject: That is very wise   True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 28, 2009 2:04 pm

"Certain and absolutely true"
One of the things that confirmed the possibility for the dew collection being connected to the process of the Philosophers stone was the Emerald Tablet and also all of the alchemical literature that says the ingredients can be found "everywhere: in the Earth, on the Mountains, In the air and in the nourishing waters." (Michael Maier, Atalanta Fugiens, Oppenheim, 1618)
True, without error, certain and most true - Page 2 Atalanta_fugiens
.
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Wisdom will come by patient following of natures perfect way. (Notice the full moon and the way the Alchemist is looking to the ground behind mother nature)
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