The Lost Academy
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The Lost Academy

created for Alchemy-Illuminated.com and run by Nick Collette
 
HomeGalleryLatest imagesSearchRegisterLog in

 

 GW Method 3

Go down 
+23
T.P.
Merc
SunWukong
Thanatos
alexbr
alejandro369
ramen
Kirk
kevinpaw123
goatz
Frank
spilo
bonifaesh
Felix_Madhouse
AB
auggie
bluefloor
yeshua
phillip_reed
NDC
Wilfried
Zosimo
spagyricus
27 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
AuthorMessage
bluefloor
Admin
bluefloor


Male
Number of posts : 333
Age : 48
Location : Kalispell, Montana
Registration date : 2009-02-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun May 27, 2012 10:22 pm

Kirk wrote:


This is very part time, just as this forum has seem to become... but I felt it was best to share
study


Hi Kirk Nice to see you. Yeah I have been working hard to get myself out of a major hole and not able to do alchemy work so really not much to talk about. That is a nice looking crystal! That is not to say anything of alchemical importance, but it is cool looking. It is cool how you and a few others got salts that deposited after evaporating. Before I got into alchemy I had not idea that something solid could evaporate and redeposit. A volatile salt. So wierd. I thought only liquids did that, other that like dry ice..

It sucks you were sold copper as gold foil as that seems like what it was with the green color. Evil or Very Mad (if that is what happened)

Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun May 27, 2012 11:00 pm

Hi Blueflloor,

Yea fun to create something from what appears to be nothing. Pretty
simple I suppose, like, salt from the sea!

As for the foil, It was collected years ago from a Leaf Project. No loss!
Back to top Go down
kevinpaw123

kevinpaw123


Male
Number of posts : 217
Age : 60
Location : Garrsion, Minnesota
Registration date : 2009-01-25

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon May 28, 2012 10:39 pm

Kirk,

Nice to see your progress. Your crystals look great!

bluefloor,

It will be interesting to see your results when you start working with the cream of tarter!



Back to top Go down
bluefloor
Admin
bluefloor


Male
Number of posts : 333
Age : 48
Location : Kalispell, Montana
Registration date : 2009-02-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeTue May 29, 2012 10:54 pm

Kevin,
yeah I'm excited to do it because if the alkahest dissolves gold like his did, we could have something.

Kirk,
I must give you some constructive critisism. I have not followed exactly what you have been doing in your work but back when we were active I did follow along closely enough to sense that there was a problem of perhaps you not following Nick's instructions. And also even though we like seeing crystals or whatever it might be just because its fun to mess with this stuff when you have never done it before, we must remember that there is absolutely no alchemical value in anything that is just a crystal or just because its red or just because its green. The only reason we should expect anything of alchemical value is if we have followed strictly the instructions we were given. We must search each phase or step in the instructions to make sure we are doing it as instructed, and then move on the the next step. This is the only way we can expect results.

Just remember that we being novices must have a reason based on Nick's or other's work to expect to see good results. Just because we are working with the right material, does not mean we will have success. We must follow closely the instructions, or become so familiar with them that we can then try stuff on our own.

Also and on top of that I have heard from Nick and others that alchemy may be a science that is affected by its surroundings. That is to say they even if you have the right material and follow the instructions exactly, sometimes you might fail. This is because of astrological influences or earth energy influences... I don't know. Also experiments might differ dependeing on where on earth you reproduce them, such as if you are close to lay lines. The energies are so subtle that these types of things can affect it. I wish it weren't the case because it makes it just that much harder, but I have heard it. That is why, if we have a faithful set of instructions, we must follow them very closely, and make a go of it several times before we give up on that path.


I am also very limited on time, probably not as much as you (congratulations on the baby if I haven't said so already) and I know it is probably strung over many posts, but maybe this weekend I will have time to look over your process and see if there are any problems from my view.


Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed May 30, 2012 2:30 am

Hi Bluefloor,

I openly accept your constructive views, thank-you. This is what I believe Nick intended when he created it.
For members to post their findings and have another set of eyes for inquiry. This is IMO.

But, as for the experiments, I know they are not as Nick instructed and I am not attempting to interpet. What I
did is realize far back, my direction went off track and was trying to recover something of my goods.

I don't have a proper set-up or melting furnace: and in the beginning, my honey tolerated my musing but once we
both realized the vulgarness of intial lab work, it came to a crashing halt - one time literally causing me to lose
captured spirit. And with baby due ( by the way thx Bluefloor ) any new attempts were put on indefinite hold. So...

Though going the wrong direction, I figured to try claim something from my Evapourated Mercuries. They became Oily
solutions which I refrigerated in hope of grabbing some crystals. To my surprise after many months they appeared!
Going with the flow, they were isolated, redigested and evaped again, ultimately leading to the clearish Crystals.

Purified one more time, losing the reddish tinge little by little but purer nonetheless. It is with these which were
put with my Gold Leaf - which turned out not to be pure :-( .

Something did happen though... the leaf disolved, or at least the outside did. Why was this? Is simply due to any
salt which is corrosive? I don't know... I had hoped Nick was going to shed some light.

So I decided to take it further with my remaining crystal and put it together with 24k shavings and ditilled Spirit from
my Thunder water batch. Well it did not disolve but took on a amazing bright yellow tinge, and then produced the last
clear crystal I posted. As well, a side note, the remaining mercury after the rock was removed, has sublimed into a
salt which is tinged yellow. Who knows... I still may do something else with the new salts...

So I hope this has been concise and somewhat clear, it is late.
No, I haven't followed the instructions proper but figured for the sake of educational experience - I went with it!
I will re-visit the Book of Covenant, with the right set up, and go forward. It will be exciting as I have learned so much
over these past 2 years.

I hope we hear more from Nick, and that his difficult times soon become better times.
This forum has been a blessing.


PS Nice to hear from you Kevin!




sunny study cheers
Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun Jun 17, 2012 9:12 pm

Hi guys,

So I'm just working with some of these different batches of salt solutions, in non alchemical methods except it be using Evaporation and keeping in mind, that, the process is digest and separation which in itself is, alchemical.

But, I digress. Back to observation... Beyond creating a salt stone, there is a second salt which I believe is a sal ammoniac.

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Photo-44
Back to top Go down
SunWukong




Male
Number of posts : 293
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2012 3:46 pm

I dont think i can get over the fact this entire thread is about \"philosophical dew\".... No
Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 01, 2012 11:05 pm

With respect...

and beyond the critique, your point is?

scratch
Back to top Go down
SunWukong




Male
Number of posts : 293
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun Sep 02, 2012 7:30 pm

its just, there are so many other processes than using human excrement.....why this one?

This process is the last resort process in my eyes... and this same process is popular on another forum I saw... why is this process so popular? Suspect

i just, i dont know man....
Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 03, 2012 1:08 am

it's just many methods often involve chemicals and here, the forum has focused upon the non-chemical paths. And besides capturing our own
Ph. Dew was just so damn easy!

many tried for sure

santa
Back to top Go down
SunWukong




Male
Number of posts : 293
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 03, 2012 1:10 am

thank you for clarifying that for me kirk..... i think what you said should be mentioned somewhere

"Non-chemical Alchemy" should be the name of the threat


or maybe i missed the memo bounce
Back to top Go down
Merc

Merc


Number of posts : 45
Registration date : 2012-08-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 14, 2012 9:44 pm

Guys--

Just want to make clear that the path here is not the same as the path on the “other” website. Yes, the starting material is the same…that is where the similarities end. You won’t find “his” path in any alchemical book, although he claims every philosopher is talking about it….he has his kingdoms confused, applying mineral processes to the animal kingdom. His path takes the first spirit (the Mercury) although he doesn’t prepare it correctly…and then mixes it with overly calcined salt…Unfortunately, that will never produce the elixir. But then again, he thinks Sulfur and Salt are the same! And wants to prove it with some intellectual “counting” of terms and an overused assumption about Paracelsus being the first guy to mention salt…(irrelevant). Always ignoring what doesn't fit “his” process. And BTW, the real sages never lied; they let your own imagination do that for them! But then again, how would he know? ...he has ”a nack for it”, yeah, we all do…where is the evidence?

To do this work right, you have to be open and flexible…never ignore evidence…go back to the text, if you don’t understand what you are seeing…something is not right. All these people being misled with a “custom” process that has never been proven to work! It doesn’t even follow basic Hermetic philosophy. Normally I would keep my mouth shut but this is going to give alchemy another bad hit.

If he knew what Sulfur was and was open to the idea that maybe he has misinterpreted something, he would have been at the black stage a long time ago…notice how nobody has any real blackness following his path? So, he stretches time frames to keep his hypotheses intact. What happened when you still see no black in 3 years?

You don’t putrefy without sulfur-period…and the one guy who did get some putrification (by following a modified path—following tips from Bacon’s animal kingdom), he “didn’t have time to look into it” because he knows his process it so correct and is so busy "waiting" with his “real work”. I don’t blame the other guy for behaving loony after that…It is just silly and arrogant…

The alchemists guarded against this type of “intellectual analysis”….if you want a good laugh, listen to the analysis of an “expert alchemy professor” studying alchemy from Indiana University on youtube (who, buy the way has been restoring and putting on-line Newton’s private collection which is a some good stuff: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/newton/ ). For example, he thinks a dragon is nitric acid, breathing “red fire” which you can make fit…“of course you can”. But that type of analysis won’t work with the texts…Although, I give him credit, as he is doing some experimenting and really am proud someone at a University is looking into this stuff. Is the true Newton finally surfacing?

Anyhow, you have to do the work, to understand it, go back and read, do more work, etc. You can‘t figure it all out in your head and backward apply “a process”…at that point anything fits. And look at the evidence…a lack of progress shows a lack of understanding of nature. Which means it is your “version” of what you think nature is doing. Not the truth. Evidence never lies.

So, I think it is important to understand what we are doing and why this path could produce the elixir. I’m making a distinction here for a good reason.

We take the first Mercury, which will be somewhat milky on the first distillation and keep it separate and without any phlegm. This Mercury should be cleaned by redistilling until nothing is left in the receiver, or better, place in a mild digestion for a philo month which will make it drop its red/brown earth…When it is clean and done right, you will see little white things in the liquid which distill over the helm and are somewhat inseparable. The phlegm will weaken it (this is important), so definitely don’t be sloppy and make sure to change receivers before the phlegm starts to come over. Then, when the phlegm is done distilling, stop and let it cool. Do not burn the Sulfur or drive it off. This is the second Spirit and is intermixed with our Salt and the caput. The second spirit is not a second eagle distillation.

Understand what the Alchemists called Spirits & Wine, look and see what they saw and why they called it what they did....put yourself in their time frame. Don’t use modern chemistry terms/labels, don’t follow some formula like 9/10ths of the liquid (everyone will be different) or you will miss things. Follow the signs you see from the texts…this is what you are trying to do. Understand and watch closely.

When we mix the first purified Spirit back into the caput, we are going to extract the second spirit (which is the Sulfur) and the Salt. Yes you can do this in a day but if you let this digest for a month, it will get much redder as the Sulfur matures. (This is the type of thing you are trying to find out, to match what they got, the red salts). Or even better, mature it after you filter it from the black nastiness and then filter it again before crystallization. I don't need to tell you all that type of stuff.

Sure the Salt contains the Sulfur (in this case). The more Sulfur you have, the redder the crystals will be. Not brown but deep red. Brown is filth and needs to be removed. Weaker is yellow and then white has little. If yours are white, charge them outside per deliquium to capture more fire. They will start to get yellow and look like wax and bubble and flow up the walls of the beaker. The salts change dramatically, so if you are only getting squares then that is not it yet…keep going until the feathers and crosses appear and the entire thing is homogenous, crystalizing more or less at once and looking waxy like. Now, the volatile Sulfur is fixed.

When you crystalize in a supersaturated solution of Mercury and Sulfur, the crystals will hydrate and contain the three principals at the correct ratios. Wola! The hidden marriage with this type of crystallization…now we have our Salt to work the metals. This Salt can be charged per deliquium to give it more fire.

We do a fast dry path rotation and use the crucible for a fermentation to produce the red glass of gold which needs to be powdered and then another rotation with the salts again to produce the elixir.

This is nothing like the other “made up” process…A real sage wrote this one.
Back to top Go down
Kirk

Kirk


Male
Number of posts : 248
Age : 64
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2010-03-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 14, 2012 11:05 pm

Great post Merc
Thx!

sunny
Back to top Go down
T.P.

T.P.


Number of posts : 122
Registration date : 2012-08-06

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 15, 2012 3:35 am

Merc wrote:
Guys--
This is nothing like the other “made up” process…A real sage wrote this one.

Ah, the real Sage who wrote this instruction in POTPOURRI1 was claiming to be an American Prince of Dachem (imaginary kingdom) and was always dressed in Oriental Ottoman fashion and was calling himself Hulta Zob.
Later he changed the story and claimed to be a Prince from India.

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Th_694241637_A_122_506lo


That's him:

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Th_693957754_P1317031_122_16lo GW Method 3 - Page 11 Th_693979268_P1317039_122_474lo


He was living in Danzig where he was acquinted with the King who arranged a marriage for him with a widow baroness to be able raise him into with Nobility but baroness didn't wanted to marry him so she ordered his excecution.
He was killed in his appartment in Danzig by her men.
Back to top Go down
SunWukong




Male
Number of posts : 293
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun Sep 16, 2012 7:48 pm

Merc's understanding is absolutely correct, hands down cheers
Back to top Go down
Merc

Merc


Number of posts : 45
Registration date : 2012-08-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: what does it take?   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 11:55 am

OK…so not a quintessential sage like Basil and I probably should have said that a bit differently but you know what I was really getting at…Of course, he was a prince of ”the chem” and thanks for a good chuckle; I like the older paintings/pics. Even some of the bigger names like Paracelsus, can give you a view into the personality that seems contrary to the ideal. Many of these guys seem somewhat funny, looking with today’s eyes but it was a somewhat different situation back then…

Anyhow, I want to get back to some more lab/procedure discussions. I’ll post more pics, to keep it practical and tangible. I’m really only explaining what I have done, you’ll need to decide what to take as useful and what to throw away as you create “your process” with “your equipment” and “your stuff”. AND maybe someday, you’ll write a booklet—just do everyone a favor and write it after you create something (hehehe, ok enough!).

For this method, here are some things to keep in mind:

Maybe you didn’t cook it long enough in fusion? Some alchemists cooked the salt a full 6 hours with gold at high temp to get the red glass. (Actually, last night I read one guy who cooked it for 24 hours). If your salt doesn’t have much fire and is weak, it is not going to work easily and may need more time. Try cooking it longer, if it isn’t working & you have salt left, when you open and pour your crucible. Nic mentions this in some posts “in a sealed crucible at high temperature for MANY HOURS until all the gold is converted to the red glass-like powder of projection.”

Watch and make adjustments “run by run”… If you don’t have salt left after 45 minutes, you need a tighter seal and to fix your salts more, so they can work on the metal without volatizing off so quickly. Potent salts with a lot of fire can destroy pressed graphite crucibles or silicon carbide ones, the solid block graphite ones are better. I no longer use graphite. Here is a pic of salts "sweating" straight through one:

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-011

If you pour it out and the metal is on fire (it will look like sparklers’ sparks shooting from it), you are really close—just needs a little more cook time. You can see here where the metal had burned the marble brown as it was sparking away for about 10 seconds after the pour…you will notice the salt is black (graphite) but around the metal it is white. Ding ding ding. This was a silver run and it was just starting to go… I poured it prematurely. (hard when it is sealed and you can’t easily look).

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-012

Keep at it with many attempts as nick has said. It doesn’t work every time... you’ll have to do it many times, 10 or more…“as many times as it takes” until you see what you are looking for and suddenly “it” happens. Some people take much more time to learn to play the piano than others (depending on who you are). Do it 10 times or 20 times--how bad do you want it? 100 times? That is the real deal, make your desire = effort… I did it many times before seeing any red glass. Don’t give up because it doesn’t work on the first few attempts… It’s harder than riding a bike.

Take care
Back to top Go down
Pray

Pray


Male
Number of posts : 251
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 11:44 pm

Merc, thanks!
This is helpful.

A couple questions:
1- do you place inswool or kaowool under the lid to help seal the lid on your crucible?

2- is your furnace like Nick's where you lower in the crucible from an opening at the top? if so, what's your lid made of and does it have wool inside, would the wool fibers provide an air-tight seal?


thanks

Back to top Go down
Merc

Merc


Number of posts : 45
Registration date : 2012-08-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 11:29 am

Good question Pray, I wondered about that myself. In fact, I was pretty sure the wool would leak, so I would use a traditional lute (egg white, lime, enamel) which was sort of a pain to break off and pour.

I picked up a piece of kaowool and held it to my mouth was surprised that I could not blow air through it...I was thinking "nic was right!" Now I cut a little square and weight it down with a piece of iron on top or in my case a heavy used cupel. What is nice about this is if it "goes runaway", it is not so tight that it can explode. But even though I use the higher 2600F rated wool, the square is only good for 1 run. I just buy a foot square for ~$10 on ebay.

Here is a pic of the set-up that was used for the previous pics. You can see how much the wool has shrunk:
GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-013

Here you can see the energy/salt that chewed a hole through the wool:
GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-015

I flipped the wool over and turned the flash off, so you can see more detail. The wool is completely vitrified and brittle (the salt w/heat will do that):

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-016

I don't have an induction furnace but that would be the type I would buy (if I didn't already have 4 kilns) as it is much more efficient and perfect for this process. Many are only 2000F max but I would go for a 2150F or 2200F (little higher temp.)

take care
Back to top Go down
Pray

Pray


Male
Number of posts : 251
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 11:36 am

"nic was right!" - i did read here that he said wool will seal it. yes he was right.

The photo of his kiln in the book shows the lid open, and its basically filled with wool, not a hard graphite slab.


you said

Quote :
If you don’t have salt left after 45 minutes, you need a tighter seal and to fix your salts more, so they can work on the metal without volatizing off so quickly.

How do you fix them more?

thanks
Back to top Go down
Merc

Merc


Number of posts : 45
Registration date : 2012-08-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 12:20 pm

I'll give you the general formula which is 3 parts fixed added to 1 part volatile will make it fixed...just as 3 parts volatile will make 1 part fixed, volatile. Then you figure out the best way to apply this for your situation.

For sulfurs, a maturation and digestion will make the volatile oil sink and become fixed or visa versa. I have to get to some of your other questions later, when I have time.

The more you read the original texts and do the lab work, the more of this terminology will become clear to you.

Take care
Back to top Go down
Edgarl




Male
Number of posts : 38
Location : Australia
Registration date : 2012-09-21

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 2:56 am

Thanks Merc for sharing your very valuable knowledge on this matter...even thoguh i am not yet following the GW3 its good to read how everyone else is going and picking up tips along the way Smile . As far as sealing the crucible goes i think we all re facing a bit of a challange . I hope mycrucible is gonna be up to the task when the time comes in , i got a R9D -10 series and this particular one comes with a small graphite lid and i guess i will find out how effective its going to be in sealing...below is the very poor picture ( my apologies for the substandart camera hopefully will get a new one soon)

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Pictur10
Back to top Go down
Pray

Pray


Male
Number of posts : 251
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Oct 01, 2012 9:17 am

Merc,

Thanks, your posts are golden.

If you continue the heating keeping the metal in flux for hours, could one over do it by waiting too long, or by over heating (easier done with silver since the melting point is lower than gold) .. over heat or keep in flux for too long that they get the stone but due to the additional heat or extra time the astral fire in the stone ends up leaving the metal destroying what was made before one could look to see the product int he crucible .. Based on a previous post the answer is no, continued heating does not cause any harm, but I want to double check with you to be sure.

You said you dont use graphite crucibles anymore, do you use quarts ones?
Back to top Go down
Merc

Merc


Number of posts : 45
Registration date : 2012-08-10

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 03, 2012 12:45 pm

I think you will be fine with that kiln and crucible….graphite gets your salt dirty which is a pain, but it works just fine, as long as it is one carved from a block and not pressed together. Some of the little ones on ebay “claim” to be pure graphite but they actually are a pressed graphite/silicon carbide mix which gets easily destroyed. So, if you have a major problem with your crucible that is something to consider. I now use alumina but haven’t used it long enough to give a final report.

I don’t think you can cook it too long. Once the red glass forms, it is irreducible and can’t be destroyed by fire, so no worries…although if your crucible cracks, you will probably lose it all. That is likely the bigger worry with a longer cook time. That is how you purify the salts out, anyhow...

I have found alumina to be a great alternative to graphite. They are a bit expensive but you only need a 50ml size for cooking your salt and gold and they are much cheaper than quartz. I was going to wait to post this until I had used it a bit more, so take this as a preliminary report at this point.

What I like about Alumina is that it is very durable and does not contaminate your pours with black graphite. In theory, this crucible should stand up pretty well and is considered impervious (if high enough purity) and very hard. These crucibles are brittle but very strong and smooth.

Because this crucible lasts a long time, it can get some junk built up inside which can be hard to clean. If you take about 250g of bismuth and melt it at around 1000F and pour, you will completely clean out the crucible….bismuth is so heavy it displaces everything to the surface, it doesn’t stick, and grabs any precious metal, so you could use the same crucible for silver and gold. I use 2 separate but am surprised at how well the crucible gets clean with bismuth. Try it out.

I pulled out my 100ml for silver so you can see its relative size compared to the standard 1k graphite crucible….It is bigger than you would think for 100ml.

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-110

When I looked inside, I noticed a crack in the bottom...You have got to be kidding me? Not happy and no, I did not clean this one with Bi (yet).

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-111

The thing I was doing was melting some crazy white sulfur/glass that appeared when I was working with copper (I’ll have to show you that). I took this incombustible white glass stuff and tried melting it with silver but the 2 would not combine, so I was left with white crunchy hard stuff and silver bits. I guess it is the incombustible white body likely needing the water of paradise but it was worth a try as these chunks of glass just appeared calling me to play with them. I figured with alumina, I would not have to preheat the crucible. I guess I was wrong.

Typically, the crucible is slowly heated to temp and the ingredients are poured in when temperature is reached…with a fiber blanket top, this is still doable with GW3 but you would need to be quick. Sealing with a traditional lute, makes it almost impossible. Anyhow, during the last run, I had prefilled the cold crucible with this glass and metal and put it into the kiln at 2000F. Apparently this “shock” caused the crucible to crack…

Or maybe when I took it out and put it on a cold cement brick instead of a refractory one? So, that could be a negative to using alumina as I have never had a graphite crucible crack from a cold start and I have been heating those for years and years.

Quartz is very resistant to thermal shock, so I would be surprised if any well-made quartz crucible would crack from a cold start. The other positive about quartz is that it is clear, so theoretically you could watch it turn. Yes! But I have had a flask crack and the GW distillate that dripped into the hot mantel turned the fiberglass blanket into a hard glass. My concern is that at such high temps., the salt will chew up the quartz crucible. Just like how you make the true hermetic seal from roasted quartz dust & GW alkahest. So I have not tried quartz but am interested in it.

I’m going to take some 3000F cement and coat the bottom of this crucible & see how it holds up. The integrity still looks good and it is just a hairline. I would have not even noticed the cracks without taking some pics.

GW Method 3 - Page 11 2012-112

I hope this is a fluke and not an issue with alumina crucibles…I’ll let you
know what I find out. I was just getting excited with alumina as “the answer” for a GW3 “perfect crucible” until seeing this cracked bottom. So tired of this salt destroying crucibles.

BTW—there is someone on ebay selling 100ml alumina crucibles without a lid for about $25 with a “clearance sale”. I may grab another...

Take care
Back to top Go down
Frank

Frank


Male
Number of posts : 83
Registration date : 2010-02-12

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Hi Merc,

I'm impressed by your solid understanding of chemistry. But you can still profit from my 10 years plus experiance with crucibles.

I use clay graphite crucibles. They have a good shock resistance and don't give off dirt as the graphites. When you use them first you have to preheat them red hot for about 20 min. Then let them cool in the furnace. That oxidizes the carbon and changes the outer surface to brown which keeps the stuff inside clean.

Aluminium oxide crucibles are good too but only have a shock resistance of 190-200° C.

Special clay crucibles which are baked at 1500° C called gold crucibles are not too porous for the gold to seep through. They are good but I don't know if you can get them in the States.

Quartz crucibles are only usable up to 1100°C (2012° F)
Just pour the melted stuff out and put the crucible back in the furnice.
Never put a aluminium oxide crucible heated on a cold brick.

Good luck!

Frank Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Pray

Pray


Male
Number of posts : 251
Location : USA
Registration date : 2012-08-17

GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 21, 2012 11:31 pm

Merc.

Does it matter whether you pour the molten metal out or leave it inside the (graphite) crucible to cool and solidify then extract it out once everything has cooled to room temp?

Is there a benefit to pouring out the molten metal, cooling it quickly in the process?

thank you brother
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





GW Method 3 - Page 11 Empty
PostSubject: Re: GW Method 3   GW Method 3 - Page 11 Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
GW Method 3
Back to top 
Page 11 of 13Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
 Similar topics
-
» GW1 Method
» wet method or dry method?
» thanks for this method
» Morning Dew method 3
» Question on the Second Method

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Lost Academy :: Alchemy :: Practical Alchemy-
Jump to: