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 GW method may be much faster and safer though

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PostSubject: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:35 pm

Nick.... all I am convinced that the GW method is the key to a simple way of doing this.

I just can not accept my past failures of the GW method to stop me, because when you look at the GW method I posted on flicer, you can see outer transmutations of the base metal.

They look similar to the guys gold on the video.

I met with Lee not too long ago and he mentioned something very important: Its the temperture and holding it at a molten state for about an hour.

So I have been working on my jewlers oven, I stuffed it with coal placed my metal crucible that was covered, but I could not get the heat high enough, instead my GW crystals turned gray, the the gold was their still unmelted.

I still have a little GW crytals left, so I am going to modify the oven, drill a hole stick a LPG burner inside to get the crucible white hot, that should melt the metal and fuse the GW crystals to the gold to make the stone of the first order.

I noticed that in the video the furnace is round inside, my jewlers oven is square, do you guys think I am wasting my time with the square oven and a propane torch to get the heat up high?

Or should I just build one that is round???

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:54 pm

I think you should build a round oven like Patrick's. It looks like he used one of those common big cooking pots, and drilled a hole in the side, then put a cylinder in the center (maybe just a steal food/coffee can that he cut the bottom off) and he then filled the space in-between the steal can and the wall of the pot with cement of some kind.

I'm sure there's instructions and even a video on-line somewhere to show how it's done.

Its strange that once he made his gold, he didn't buy a professional jewellers oven. They aren't even that expensive for a small one.

Also, when you heat the GW crystals with the powdered gold, you will get the unmultiplied stone that is still not the stone of the 1st Order. The stone Patrick shows in the video has got to be the unmultiplied stone because it still looks like cinnabar or red brick dust.
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PostSubject: How to build a low cost furnace links   Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:56 pm

FURNACE LINKS: http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

http://www.foundry101.com/search.htm At this site they also sell a cool propane burner pretty cheap, it beats me trying to make one spending hours just to make it plus the time locationg the materials.

MATERIALS: http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:58 am

I think the video on the furnace Patrick Riviere was inspired by the association "Friends of alchemy" in France and in particular the following section

http://alchimie-pratique.org.chez-alice.fr/fourfusion2.html

Chrysopée
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:14 am

Hello Chrysopee,

Can you translate for us who don't speak french, the video on the stone with Patrick Riviere.
I think that Nick and everyone else is curious as to was said, because we can only get some information from the pictures.

Best regards,

Spagyricus
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:20 am

I am not sure to be the best person to do this job because my English is very bad and I use google translation

But if anyone else on this board intends to do the job I would.

Chrysopée
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:40 pm

Patrick Riviere used build and sell little gas furnaces like the one in the video for € 300 and fitting crucibles for € 10 a piece. I have just mailed him for information. I let you know whether he is still doing it.

My 2 electric furnaces are not reliable. I just broke one again.

Frank
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PostSubject: I think I can build a furnace for under $100.00   Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:50 pm

Using two metal 5 gallon paint buckets, I am going to order the refractory soon.

Just visiting the website and seeing how these thinga are made give me ideas of my own.

Yes, it will be great ordering those crucibles from him, since I can not find anything like them here in the US.

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:23 pm

word2give
Thanks for the link!
I just ordered the small furnace from Lost & Foundry
I'm all giddy! bounce
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PostSubject: I am glad to help!   Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:01 am

Congrats, did you order the burner too?
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:15 am

No, But I do have an adapter and hose so I can hook-up a small torch to one of my 20 or 30 lb tanks. Should be fine just take longer to heat. That said I will order the burner they have at a later time though.
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PostSubject: Got my Furance today!!!   Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:26 pm

Yeah!!!

I have:

1. One Mose Project to do
2. One Moses with Salt to do
3. I have One GW test to do

Hopefully on of the latter two will get me some brittle gold.
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PostSubject: Also testing new method on Moses   Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:10 pm

I will let everyone know if it works.

Keep fingers crossed its burning now!

The furnace heated my vessal red hot within 5 minutes, its been an hour and the vessal is almost white hot. Maybe too much heat? I turned it down a notch, I have a feeling that with the higher heat ratio, less time may be needed than the four hours required.

Basketball
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:24 pm

I would be very interested in seeing how it goes.
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PostSubject: Failed! Nick knows what he is talking about : )   Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:39 pm

Field wrote:
I would be very interested in seeing how it goes.

Failed! Nick knows what he is talking about : )

I Tried making a crucible with drywall powder, and encased a crucible with a lid, let it dry and fired up my furnance after an 3 hours, the crucible was white hot, when it cooled all the drywall plaster, fell off as if it were styrofoam.

Cant cut corners, I was hoping to find a cheaper way than useing an iron crucible, but there is no other way.
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PostSubject: two projects left.   Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:42 pm

Moses with our Dew and Salt

GW attempt to make the brittle gold.

Question:

With the iron crucible, do I need to play a ceramic crucible inside the cast iron crucible and should the ceramic crucible be seals too?

Thanks

AL
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:08 pm

Hi Al,

I've yet to do the process, so I don't know by trial and error, but I think you may want the ceramic in there.
Putting a ceramic crucible inside, sealed with something that will withstand the heat, might help make sure the HgS combines with the gold only and not with the iron. (I've yet to carry out the Tugel path, but I have the materials...including the ceramic crucibles, so it's interesting to me).
It's high heat, so this combination might be possible in my mind anyway.
I could be wrong of course, it may be that it needs to have contact with iron, but it doesn't seem like this is the case in the text at any rate.

Best of luck with it, make sure it is well sealed if you choose to do it.

Bill
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:44 pm

word2give wrote:
Congrats, did you order the burner too?
Oh by the way the furnace came with the burner! Did you order one yet?

Regarding sealing the Iron crucible: I used concrete cement on the threads and around the cap head then let dry. If you don't have a pipe wrench get one! You will need at least one to get the head cap loose along with a channel lock!
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PostSubject: Thanks Kevinpaw, Thanks Bill   Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:03 am

Kevin> Regarding sealing the Iron crucible: I used concrete cement on the threads and around the cap head then let dry. If you don't have a pipe wrench get one! You will need at least one to get the head cap loose along with a channel lock!

Thanks, I never thought of using concrete, what I have used before in my successful Moses method (au to ashes) was just plain drywall plaster on the outside of the jar andit worked good because I was using an electric jewelers oven, but it took about 12 hours for it to heat up to the correct tempertures, which is the reason why I bought the furnace to speed things up a bit.

My old electric furnace was regulated by a special temperture control aparatus that I bought some time ago, however, it takes up the temperture gradually and some time it would flake on me, rather than spend $660.00 for another controller, I found it easier to buy a furnace.

BILL> but I think you may want the ceramic in there.
Yes you are right, I just wanted a confirmation to see if a "short cut" was in order, but, after the trial and error part, and ignoring Nicks guidlines, I learned that yes indeed, a sealed crucible is needed inside the iron crucible.

Having expierence as a goldsmith (also), I know that "Investmant powder" bought at jewelry supply stores for casting, has a high temperture resistance, I am thinking of buying some of that but its far more expensive than concrete.

Before when I have used it on my electric burnout oven, I took too long to harden (days) when I added the egg white, I found that if I did not use the egg whites, the material would harden faster, and it took the heat from the oven far better than the most recent attempt with the furnace.

Thanks for your help!
Al
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 am

Mercury doesn't bond to iron, so there is no need to worry about that. But if you are going to use dew salt and gold powder, then you need a graphite or ceramic crucible.
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:44 pm

Photos of GW I am going to work with. I collected approx 4gal or 15,000 ml over a period of two weeks.Photobucket" border="0" alt="" />Photobucket" border="0" alt="" />Photobucket" border="0" alt="" />Photobucket" border="0" alt="" />
As you can see the 1st batch has changed color quite a bit and neither are clear and see through any longer. The 1st batch also now has white stuff floating around in it...I always enjoy watching things evolve! Does anyone know a good glass worker who could retrofit a 24/40 joint onto the lids? I sent some specs to one place and they wanted $395.00 per lid!!! That just seemed really expensive to me. Help would be greatly appreciated! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:06 pm

Kevin,

Here is a link to a lab glass blowers association.
http://www.asgs-glass.org/asgs/memberroster/2005_MEMB_ROSTER_WELCOME.htm
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:44 pm

Thanks spragyricus!
I sent an e-mail of inquiry to one the the glass blowers
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:28 pm

Did you try Qglass.com yet? They would probably do it for a reasonable price.
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PostSubject: Re: GW method may be much faster and safer though   Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:40 pm

Thanks Nick!
I haven't. I'm going to wait to see what the guy from Woodbury, MN says. His shop is fairly close and I could drive there easily enough.
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