The Lost Academy

created for Alchemy-Illuminated.com and run by Nick Collette
 
HomeCalendarGalleryFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Explosion Danger

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
NDC
Admin


Male
Number of posts : 599
Age : 36
Location : beyond the veil
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Explosion Danger   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:20 am

My x-girlfriend pointed out something I was overlooking about the Golden Water method ---- ammonium nitrate.

It's my belief that the salt of golden water that I worked with was ammonium carbonate because it didn't explode when I heated it up with a MAPP gas torch to 3,000+ degrees F. But there is a danger of ammonium nitrate salts being left in the final product, and if you heat that up, it does indeed go BOOM!

Working with tiny amounts, there is probably not much danger, but any large quantity of several grams or more could be extremely dangerous, especially sealed in a container. I've found my method of setting the top on my crucible weighed down with an iron ring to be sufficient at keeping the fumes from the salt inside the crucible and yet allowing air to escape if there were to be an explosion. It just so happens that my furnace is designed so the graphite crucible stick out the top, and a cap with stone wool inside is placed on top to seal in the heat. So all I have to do is place an iron ring on top to weigh it down. I found the iron ring at Cynmar.com because its used to weigh down flasks in boiling water so they don't float and tip over. It's sufficiently heavy enough to do the job, but the PVC plastic coating has to be removed of course or it will melt like butter when the furnace reaches 2,000+ degrees.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://alchemy-illuminated.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Thanks for the update and the precautionary notice Nick! Now we know why alchemy is so dangerous. It's interesting to know that the white earth from GW is mostly ammonium carbonate not nitrate. So now you have piqued my curiosity. What kind of results are you getting lately?
Back to top Go down
AB

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 84
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:32 pm

Field wrote:
It's interesting to know that the white earth from GW is mostly ammonium carbonate not nitrate.
No, it's not. The Ammonium Carbonate is just the volatile salt that originates from decomposed GW. There are fixed salts in there as well.

MICROCOSMIC SALT, or ammonium sodium hydrogen orthophosphate, NH 4 NaHPO, so named by the Alchemists because it is contained in the decomposing GW of man (the "microcosm"). When heated to redness, it leaves a transparent glass of sodium metaphosphate, NaPO 3, which like borax dissolves most metallic oxides, with formation of glasses that often exhibit characteristic colours.

Ammonium Nitrate is the main salt in regular dew, but putrefaction/decomposing of the dew will also produce the volatile carbonate ammonium salt.

From my personal experience (feel free to argue about it), good dew (fit for philosophical work) will stink of ammonia, and the volatile ammonia components will also go over in distillation (along with the smell). At one time I had in front of me three jars: One containing spring dew, one containing GW and one containing sweat. The odors, colors and textures of the three different liquids were strikingly similar. (I opened and smelled them one at the time, with the other two closed).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NDC
Admin


Male
Number of posts : 599
Age : 36
Location : beyond the veil
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:00 pm

I'll have to make some "ammonium sodium hydrogen orthophosphate" and see what it does to gold by itself. By mixing ammonium chloride and disodium phosphate, it can be made in abundance.

But it still wouldn't explain why the salt from dew is able to achieve the exact some effect.

Here is more info from the 1911 Encyclopaedia.

I have plenty sal ammoniac already, but I'll have to buy a pound of disodium phosphate off eBay for 5 bucks.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://alchemy-illuminated.com
AB

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 84
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:21 pm

NDC wrote:
By mixing ammonium chloride and disodium phosphate, it can be made in abundance.
I would say that the salt(s) should preferably be alive rather than store bought.

NDC wrote:
But it still wouldn't explain why the salt from dew is able to achieve the exact same effect.
What do all those salts have in common?

Nitrogen, a.k.a. AZOTH
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NDC
Admin


Male
Number of posts : 599
Age : 36
Location : beyond the veil
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:21 pm

That's assuming that ammonia is always present in the dew salt, which I'm not convinced it is since its not explosive.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://alchemy-illuminated.com
AB

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 84
Registration date : 2008-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:59 am

NDC wrote:
That's assuming that ammonia is always present in the dew salt, which I'm not convinced it is since its not explosive.

From what I read in Wikipedia, AN doesn't explode that easily. It has to be detonated or directly exposed to a fire that enters the AN itself.

On the other hand, Ammonium Nitrite also forms naturally in the air and may explode at a temperature of 60-70 °C.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wilfried

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 83
Age : 33
Location : Austria
Registration date : 2008-12-27

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:39 pm

When I was distilling my GW for the first time I had some tiny explosions in my distillation flask. I could see some white solid in the bottom of the distillation flask which could have been AN. The flask resonated like someone slightly hitting the flask with a fork. I have a small 2m plastic tube going outside with a really small (1mm in diameter) glass-outlet at the receiver which I could hear hissing each time.

(it was like pop ... shhhhhh, nowhere near harming my distillation system tho)
This didnt happen anymore after recombining the caput mortum with the spirit and distilling it off again. There also wasnt any white solid which resembled anything like the above mentioned white solid.

PS: I did not put AN or anything else in the GW just in case anyone is wondering.

Essentially I believe that I decomposed any AN I had which then formed the spirit (liquid of ammonium carbonate). Also the fusile phosphate salts of mainly ammonium phosphate. Also some others like the phosphate of magnesia (struvite) and others mentioned like sodium ammonium phosphate probably depending on your diet. Anyway I think any of these phosphates are what we are after chemically speaking.

But fulminating gold could be quite dangerous. Nobody knows its chemical formula but it is a gold-ammoniak compound. And ammoniak is readily available in the spirit.
This path about using the spirit of GW and alcohol sounds quite dangerous.

But we are after the phosphates which are hopefully safe to use.

Wilfried
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Frank

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 83
Registration date : 2010-02-12

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:11 pm

Hello friends, I am glad to be back again.
Very Happy

When about 10 years ago I dry distilled sodium nitrate with an Erlenmeyer quartz flask to get nitric acid the neck of the flask exploded. A few months ago I distilled a mixture of several ingrediants including wood coal and Aqua fortis when at about 800°F a heavy explosion happened. Luckily I was about 10 feet away. Also when I tried to fix sulfur at 800°F it exploded although the crucible was open.

I cannot see how a sealed crucible with only some harmless stuff like water would not explode at 2000°F.

Ammonium nitrate is not needed when you want some fireworks. My experienace tells me that any old nitrogen compound explodes beyond a certain temperature.

I find Nick’s original idea best to heat up the stuff in a iron tube with a threaded lid on inside an electric kiln.

So guys keep your eyes and fingers in a healthy condition!

Frank
Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
delphinny

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 72
Age : 35
Registration date : 2009-02-14

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:49 pm

Hello!

Everyone please be safe, I know quite well first hand what explosions can do so please remember to wear ear protection when working in the labs, also a face shield (I have two of them) is also desireable because you never know if your going to get anything splashing back on you!
Also I think gloves are always a must! Smile

my explosion was so powerful that the whole room went white, I have seen this happen before once when I was a kid in a church building, some stupid kid shorted the electricity in the wall socket with a wire I gave him because we were doing electronics for fun.
I thought I was in heaven..
so like that time this time again I thought I was dead, the explosion was so loud it made no noise, instead a searing pain shot straight through my ears and all I could feel was pain and all I could see was light. the explosion blew me back about 1 foot and left a BIG dent in a metal surface I was working on (using a electric oven as a table). the light faded away soon after and after that all I heard was a LOUD ringing then I started to chant to regain my sense of well-being and it worked somewhat. hearing came back a few minutes later and then the ringing got quieter, but it has always been there 24/7 and is the result of my own stupidity.

Adam


Frank wrote:
Hello friends, I am glad to be back again.
Very Happy

When about 10 years ago I dry distilled sodium nitrate with an Erlenmeyer quartz flask to get nitric acid the neck of the flask exploded. A few months ago I distilled a mixture of several ingrediants including wood coal and Aqua fortis when at about 800°F a heavy explosion happened. Luckily I was about 10 feet away. Also when I tried to fix sulfur at 800°F it exploded although the crucible was open.

I cannot see how a sealed crucible with only some harmless stuff like water would not explode at 2000°F.

Ammonium nitrate is not needed when you want some fireworks. My experienace tells me that any old nitrogen compound explodes beyond a certain temperature.

I find Nick’s original idea best to heat up the stuff in a iron tube with a threaded lid on inside an electric kiln.

So guys keep your eyes and fingers in a healthy condition!

Frank
Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zosimo

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 383
Registration date : 2009-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi Delphinny,
May be you already know it but...
A friend of mine that suffered of that kind of continous sound in the hear went everywhere to find a solution - He's very rich - and the only one he found was the suggestion of a specialist: the doctor explained him that He should concentrate on the "previou sound", that means that you don't give any importance to the disturbing sound on the surface and so you let it go in the background until it disappears without effort: of course it takes some time but it does work.
It works the same way as it works my attention when I go to study in a bar: the more noise is there, the better I'm concentrated.
Good, enormous luck cheers .

Zosimo
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Explosion Danger   

Back to top Go down
 
Explosion Danger
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Danger dream ??? please help! First Post
» Train collides with big-rig and derails, with explosion, flames near Baltimore, Maryland
» FUKUSHIMA ::: ALERT ::: UNDERGROUND REACTIONS MAY LEAD TO NEW EXPLOSION
» Mystery explosion at Iran’s Arak heavy water reactor
» Residents in Tennessee Report Earth Shaking & Mysterious Explosion Sounds - 2/12/

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Lost Academy :: Alchemy :: Practical Alchemy-
Jump to: