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 Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre

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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:48 pm

I just found this video, this is exactly what i saw happen when i melted niter then added sulfur to it, same gas, same red sulfur fumes and molten liquid, same white precipitate, no burnt black sulfur is seen.



from the video comments:

""In the 17th century, the German-Dutch chemist Johann Glauber prepared sulfuric acid by burning sulfur together with saltpeter (potassium nitrate, KNO3), in the presence of steam. As saltpeter decomposes, it oxidizes the sulfur to SO3, which combines with water to produce sulfuric acid. In 1736, Joshua Ward, a London pharmacist, used this method to begin the first large-scale production of sulfuric acid.""
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:59 pm

And potassium sulfate or bisulfate. You can buy sodium sulfate as laundry detergent. And sodium bisulfate as PH down for swimming pools. Potassium and sodium are nearly identacle when it comes to chemistry,but alchemy tends to favor potassium over sodium for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:17 pm

maybe also potassium sulfide?  2KNO3 (l) + S(s) -> K2S(s)

that's what i was thinking, i was just reading about all these salts.

btw: i got more videos and pictures to add to this thread soon on melting sulfuer and niter together. stay tuned.

solarseeker, good reading from you.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:19 pm

I will now post the photos i promised earlier.
This is molten niter, gray in color, doesnt matter if you heat longer it remained gray



This is what happens when you add sulfur, it goes red, it boils, also theres a blue and red flame



Liquid goes from gray to clear


Repeat, you see the red sulfur stuck on the walls, eventually it evaporates, there's usually fire..


Clear and white liquid, solids are clear now


Sticky salt when warm (at 600+ and its not melting) higher mp, solidifies into a rock.


Added more s a few times to see if i can see any reaction, no reaction, the s burns and vaporizes away as usual, the salt is left with a yellow tint on it some times which evaporates with more heating.



Covered it to keep the red sulfur fumes inside, when you uncover it the heat will push this red smoke out or you can pour it out like a liquid..




stay tuned for more pix from another experiment.


Last edited by Pray on Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:30 pm

Another,

Molten niter


Added s and sealed it but not hermetically.
A spectacular show of flames that erupt from time to time often releasing a cloud of smoke out the lid. It was tight enough to keep the red sulfur smoke inside floating over the motel niter but also flexed open when the pressure built up. Kept it molten for 10 mins, no mixation of the sulfur and niter.



A couple clips showing the red smoke



Didnt want to waste more s powder. this is the finished product

final result.. solidified sulfur over solidified niter



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Repeated same experiment, same results, better photos:

Kept this one (the niter) molten for 1/2 hr



the fire show lasted a while




product





Last edited by Pray on Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:41 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Last but not lease of the experiment photos,

Molten sulfur


Added niter


product








All comments are welcome and appreciated
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:43 pm

Herm this brings me back to the encyclopedia I was trying to transcribe. It mentioned making a fixed alkali by gradually adding charcoal to molten niter and letting it burn until it quits reacting. It's rather pretty to observe but it must be done in a borosilicate beaker so that it doesn't react with or shatter it's container.

I just ignite a stick and stir the powdered niter with the hot coal. So long as I keep enough charcoal burning it sustains the niter in molten state.

At any rate the point is you might get better results with potassium hydroxide+ sulfur than with the nitrate + sulfur.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:54 pm

solarseeker wrote:
Herm this brings me back to the encyclopedia I was trying to transcribe. It mentioned making a fixed alkali by gradually adding charcoal to molten niter and letting it burn until it quits reacting.   It's rather pretty to observe but it must be done in a borosilicate beaker so that it doesn't react with or shatter it's container.

I just ignite a stick and stir the powdered niter with the hot coal. So long as I keep enough charcoal burning it sustains the niter in molten state.

At any rate the point is you might get better results with potassium hydroxide+ sulfur than with the nitrate + sulfur.

Thank you.
Do you mean to let the potassium hydroxide deliquesce then dissolve the sulfur in that? I have some sodium hydroxide liquir per deliquium that should work right?

How about using that which is most penetrating (Liquor Nitri fixi)?
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:17 pm

Actually I was thinking about mixing the powdered dry hydroxide and dry sulfur together and then gradually melting/stirring them so that they don't catch fire.

But your suggestion is worth a try.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:39 pm

thank you, i might get around to trying both.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:40 pm


i found this, he mixes sulfur and hydroxide it turns into an orange solution



not exactly alchemy
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:49 pm

I found from experimenting that melting sulfur (but not burning it) then adding sea salt (I used celtic gray, did not even powder it) it went red and black and thickened then it went to black liquid and solidified as brown stinky solid, a hepar sulfuris .. smells like rotten eggs.

wikipedia says is potassium sulfide (not sodium sulfide) , but i used sea salt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_of_sulfur

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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:17 pm

Most interesting. This deserves further study. Maybe other alchemical recipies that say "niter" aren't referring to nitrate but to hydrixide instead.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:25 pm

solarseeker wrote:
Actually I was thinking about mixing the powdered dry hydroxide and dry sulfur together and then gradually melting/stirring them so that they don't catch fire.

But your suggestion is worth a try.

if i do this the sulfur will melt first as its mp is much lower than the hydroxide, also we dont want to melt lye in glass as it will eat through it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:23 am

Update:

Regarding the black sulfur i got when i mixed sea salt into molten sulfur.. i did another run, had a control with only sulfur (no salt added) alongside the experiment jar of sulfur + sea salt.

The lone sulfur also turned black (melts red then goes black also gets thicker), turns out sulfur can be turned black if you keep it molten for some time, then cool it and its brown or black matter (not crystalline) its an allotrope of sulfur.

Now i am not entirely sure IF the sea salt i threw in the molten sulfur did 'open' the sulfur and create a hepar sulfuris or not (if this is just black molten sulfur with sea salt in it, where the sea salt didnt do anything)
 
I must note these observations however:

1- throwing seasalt into molten sulfur makes 'foam' the salt fizzles and a lot of foam is created

2- the material created (with salt added) is harder than that made with only molten and solidified sulfur.

3- the smell is stronger in the sulfur + sea salt sample.

Ive been told the smell is sulfur oxide or sulfur dioxide, i disagree, i know that toxic smell and this one i smell now is more like eggs or rotten egg more sulfurish like my cat had just gone on her littler box with #2. maybe its the smell of soul / life maybe i did make a hepar sulfuris?
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:37 pm

Pray wrote:
Update:

with #2.  maybe its the smell of  soul / life maybe i did make a hepar sulfuris?

yes the soul (egiptians)

liquor hepatis & liver of sulphur are 2 diferents substances.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:59 pm

pneumatician wrote:

yes the soul (egiptians)

liquor hepatis & liver of sulphur are 2 diferents substances.

thank you. you read my mind, been researching sulfur. when i mentioned the smell/soul i was thinking of egyptians i.e. soul being in liver and what they called liquor hepatis.

Here's how it's prepared

Quote :
Liquor Hepatis

Liquor Hepatis was the name given to another sulfurous liquid used by the alchemists. It was prepared by distilling a solution of sulfur, lime, and sal ammoniac. They secured lime (calcium oxide) by heating limestone and made sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) by gently heating camel dung in sealed containers. The distillation for Liquor Hepatis produced a combination of hydrogen sulfide and ammonia gases. Since no solids precipitated, alchemists considered this an ascending reaction only. That was a significant fact to the Egyptians, who associated the Liquor with the soul. They believed the soul resided in the liver, and the reddish-brown color of Liquor Hepatis convinced them they had isolated the soul's essence. The name comes from "hepar," the Greek word for liver.

The Liquor exuded an unnatural, pungent odor that the alchemists found quite mysterious. They assumed it was due to an ethereal presence concealed in the sulfur and activated by the fertile principle in ammonia. To the Egyptians, the odor symbolized a soul or a spiritized presence hidden within the liquid. They solidified that presence by adding wax and fat to Liquor Hepatis and turning it into a thick paste. The emulsion became known as the Balsam of the Alchemists or Balsam of the Soul. The possibility of coagulating an invisible potential into a second body, like a balsam, became a basic tenet of alchemy.

You agree that what i have made is liver of sulphur (hepar sulfuris)?

thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:53 pm

Pray wrote:
pneumatician wrote:

yes the soul (egiptians)

liquor hepatis & liver of sulphur are 2 diferents substances.

thank you. you read my mind, been researching sulfur.  when i mentioned the smell/soul i was thinking of egyptians i.e. soul being in liver and what they called liquor hepatis.

You agree that what i have made is liver of sulphur (hepar sulfuris)?

thanks

no. i think you are doing absurd mad things Smile

for what reason you first melt S and after put salt in it??? the spirit of S is gone! putting salt in S feaces... umm? I never read anything like this. well, perhaps doing crazy things you get something interesting Smile

in PM you can see the diference b. put with and after.


http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/article00858.html
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:09 pm

I'm experimenting, next I plan of doing the same fusing of these 2 salts sealed.

liquor hepatis = Liquor Hepatis was the name given to a sulfurous liquid used by the alchemists. Considered...

liver of sulphur = Complex of polysulphides of potassium, made by fusing potash and sulphur.


since i didnt use potash (used sea salt not potassium carbonate or potassium hydroxide or potassium nitrate) what i have must be made with sodium. that is if the sodium and sulfur interacted.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:11 pm

Pray wrote:
I'm experimenting, next I plan of doing the same fusing of these 2 salts sealed.

liquor hepatis = Liquor Hepatis was the name given to a sulfurous liquid used by the alchemists. Considered...

liver of sulphur = Complex of polysulphides of potassium, made by fusing potash and sulphur.


since i didnt use potash (used sea salt not potassium carbonate or potassium hydroxide or potassium nitrate) what i have must be made with sodium. that is if the sodium and sulfur interacted.

from your process? nothing of usefull. the H2S is gone so you have a calcined body and salt, a death body. no evolution, no maduration... maybe you can extract the salt but with this quantity... fusing the S&S in sealed crucible I thing nothing of useful can result... maybe a explosion if too much gas is released. S&S are fat bodies and if somethig of usefull you want from these two first you need to remove their fat.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:43 pm

Well, Nick's drawing doesnt say anythng about removing the fat
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:18 pm

Pray wrote:
Well, Nick's drawing doesnt say anythng about removing the fat

o well! you are following a nick recipe...

if alchemy have 5 levels, this guy are IMHO in the first level (reading rams and nothing more). in some method was close but lacked basic data that there is no, I believe, in RAMS.

you can believe what you want but alchemy is alchemy and not chemy. the "al" means far from normal. higher. if alchemy can be so simple any "idiot" can do it. chemy only get/do the obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:15 am

I guess what I need to do is follow bacstrom, seal up some sulfur with sea water, or liquor nitri fixati and digest for a month, otherwise one could mix sulfur with \"philosophical dew\", sea water, liquor nitri fixati and simmer down many times. Eventually the sulfur is supposed to open: I am speculating either all of it goes red or some of the sulfur floats on top like an oil. I'm still learning.

If Nick was a level 1 then i must be a level 0.5 , i doubt nick was a level 1 though just because you might have not understood him or he might have not written something clearly doesnt mean we can assume he didnt know more than he let on.
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:42 am

Pray wrote:
I guess what I need to do is follow bacstrom, seal up some sulfur with sea ...

If Nick was a level 1 then i must be a level 0.5 , i doubt nick was a level 1 though just because you might have not understood him or he might have not written something clearly doesnt mean we can assume he didnt know more than he let on.
IMHO and ONLY IMHO you and nick are in "blind mode", doing things without understand what you are doing & what you want to do/achieve. in GENRAL nick are in level 1, in a particular process is in level 4,5.
I recomend to go the source, nick books are only refried rams text.

well if you acheive an oil from S. What will you do with it? because exist many ways to get it
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PostSubject: Re: Ruby Red Egg from Sulfur and Nitre   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:30 am

i dont care what your HO is regarding me or anyone.  You have no idea what and who I read, or any idea about my work

so please, we dont need to know how great you are or how un-great Nick was, or deal with hints and riddles here and there, let's try to keep this post moving forward and progressing and improving.

I appreciate your previous comments, but have you worked with sulfur and sea salt, if so then tell me what you did, show me photos etc.
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