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F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist



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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:35 pm

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:15 am

Msagei,

Welcome. I very much like your words. This is all ringing very true to me and i like your wording of it. I like your description of what we are looking for. This "universal element". The life force. The underlying thing that gives all things life, even the chemical elements. Without it, they would stop spinning and die.

Nick called this the astral fire.

I am here, I have replied, so please, procede. I am very excited to hear you.

I also very much like your concept of the sun or moon light used to unluck or keep alive this universal element and how it "binds" to radiation. I have had some experience with this as I am able to control the weather with the use of my body. As the normal food energy is converted in my body to the higher form, chakra energy, or astral fire, I then push this into the ground and it cause the sunlight to be more intense and burn away the clouds. I can also use this energy to influence other types of weather.

But also we have speculated what is this thing in sunlight or moonlight that helps alchemy. And is it even there or not? And clearly you have brought us back to remembering and knowing that it is there, and also along these lines I would like to share a short story.

There was a guy named Karl Baron von Reichenbach. He was a medical doctor. He had quite a bit of money to pursue his own interests which were like the ones we talk about here, subtle energies. He had found that sun and moonlight were affecting peoples moods and attitudes. People would seek a doctor looking for what ailed them, and somehow he figured out that it was the sun and moon.

Anyway what he ended up finding, is that if you seal yourself up in an absolutely dark room, and stay in there for hours to let your eyes fully adjust to complete darkness, then you had some type of rod extending outside that would be struck be either sunlight or moonlight, and energy would travel down this rod that would move through a material just like electricity, but not fast, very slow, like 35 miles per hour. And it travel through any material, like wood, plastic, etc. and it would be given off in a glow around things that only your darkness adjusted eyes could see in a fully dark room. And psychics consitently reported the same different feel from the sun and moon. Strangely enough cold from the sun and warm from the moon.

Anyway, please continue.

And even though I like hearing about angels etc. and hearing someone talk about these things who knows, we need to keep things here related closely to our alchemy work just because we have to to keep the forum under control. Just don't take it too far. Some day I will find out how to create another topic icon for us to chat about other things.
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:22 am

What you're saying also clears up some statements from Nick that were giving us *alot* of confusion. What you said about Nick having indeed made "the stone", but then moving on to super high energies of the stone by making it out of the more complex elements.

It was super confusing because he would say for years, "yes I have made the stone many ways," but then is his last days said you can only make a "tincture" from dew.
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:35 pm

F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist wrote:
Well time to sleep. Ill answer more questions when i come back from my slumber.

Come on wake-up, enough slumber for now (lol) were are all waiting anxiously for the revelation on the way with the Sun and Moon using Lenses and Mirrors.
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:06 pm

Welcome brother! Truth in your words. I have used sunlight to effect birth of metals (using a maginfying glass). Here is the book of Raziel
Sefer Raziel Ha Malach
http://emol.org/kabbalah/seferraziel/seferraziel.pdf

Raziel is Archangel of Chokmah who is the "Keeper of Secrets" and the "Angel of Mysteries", sefiroth after Kether from which the Limitless Light shines. That is the unmanifested astral fire, (mercury) which materializes in Binah (3d sefiroth - Saturn, salt, cube)
No one will ever get the stone if they have doubts about the Creator and remain ignorant about His works.
God is light and alchemy is illumination, bringing that light down to earth, purifing it and multiplying it to cure disease and destory evil (darkness) and ignorance. Without Kaballah, Astrology, prayer, meditation and a pure and huble heart, one will fail.
And another important thing is unity and sharing. Once one of us gets it, the others will follow quickly even without sharing the information.
Im tired of seeing much discord and scepticism lately here, instead of envy cheer for your brother and pray for the success of all.
Peace Light and Love!
Ore et Labore
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:16 pm

OZONE O3 = kills all micororganisms, rejuvenates the body, is a gas, 10X more soluble the oxygen in water, toxic in high concentrations, formed after lighting storms etc. ... Gods disinfectant as I call it, plants love it.
Banned in medicine in the US. Medical ozone = no no!
Of course it gets more powerful if u magnetize ozone water.
All diseases such as cancer, fungus, bacteria cannot survive in an oxygen environment more than 15-30 min. and don[t tolerate light.

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:22 pm

NEPTUNE wrote:
Welcome brother! Truth in your words. I have used sunlight to effect birth of metals (using a maginfying glass). Here is the book of Raziel
Sefer Raziel Ha Malach
http://emol.org/kabbalah/seferraziel/seferraziel.pdf

Raziel is Archangel of Chokmah who is the "Keeper of Secrets" and the "Angel of Mysteries", sefiroth after Kether from which the Limitless Light shines. That is the unmanifested astral fire, (mercury) which materializes in Binah (3d sefiroth - Saturn, salt, cube)
No one will ever get the stone if they have doubts about the Creator and remain ignorant about His works.
God is light and alchemy is illumination, bringing that light down to earth, purifing it and multiplying it to cure disease and destory evil (darkness) and ignorance. Without Kaballah, Astrology, prayer, meditation and a pure and huble heart, one will fail.
And another important thing is unity and sharing. Once one of us gets it, the others will follow quickly even without sharing the information.
Im tired of seeing much discord and scepticism lately here, instead of envy cheer for your brother and pray for the success of all.
Peace Light and Love!
Ore et Labore

All this Kaballah and morality is killing me where are all these guys coming from. Is it "Born Again Alchemy"?
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F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist



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PostSubject: o3 or ozone to say is the true Universal solvent.   Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:12 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:52 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:46 am

F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist wrote:
This element is spoken of in the emerald tablet of Hermes and everyone knows that Hermes is the basis of alchemy and even acknowledged by the Rosicrucian. o3 is activated with the suns Uv rays. The moon also activates it by reflecting the suns Uv light. Like the Hermes emerald tablet explains in philosophy is that the sun is its father and the moon its mother. Its found below like above in heaven. Also o3 will neutralize poisons, kill bacteria and viruses, strengthen the immune system, digest any metal by destroying it and will convert it into a new substance, neutralize heavy metals in the body, its made in lightning storms, it detoxifies the body and mind, and the sun will unlock it like a key. So regular oxygen.. The suns Uv light will activate oxygen and turn it into o3. The suns light or key to say will unlock oxygen and activate it with the astral fire. The invisible light to say. Uv light is the half of astral fire and o3 is the other half. Together they form the universal solvent or true salt of nature. o3 absorbs Uv light and will stay activated as long as it has the sun as its key to stay alive. Now when distillation takes place and you separate the spirit from the salt. The salt will concentrate with the astral fire and o3 within it. While the spirit is the pure liquid water you will use to add over and over till you have a perfect salt.

Thank you NEPTUNE and everyone. Yes he is right and your missing link of over thousands of yrs. Since the time of Hermes, has finally been revealed. I wouldn't of never found this. If it weren't for nick's reference. I have been researching the true salt of nature for over a yr. I even extracted a small amount from one of my flasks and made a salt. When i took it i felt a shift in my mind and my vision was very lucid. Everything had a vibrant color in my view. My head hurt for a bit, but afterward i felt cleansed and detoxified like it cleaned out my body. I only took this for a few days. Now i'm concentrating it in a flask with u-rine, a flask with sea water, a flask with lake water mixed with lightning water and dew, and i even have an ozone machine to make it artificially and i also have it in a flask. All outside in the sun. I keep most of them separate due to there chemical properties.

Yes like NEPTUNE said.. FDA has demonized o3 aka ozone, because it is a medicine able to do many things like cure cancer and even cure aids. Its being used by doctors as ozone therapy. FDA is trying hard to ban the use of it in the world. Back in the 1950s or so. One of there commissioners ratted them out and told the supreme federal court that FDA gets paid by the drug companies for protection. So remember Nick or ∴N.D.C∴ became the key to enlightment for everyone here and stand against the lies from the FDA and the National Drug Code. Who wants to take drugs you see on tv commercials for depression that can make you sicker or give you death?

Note: Remember doing your alchemy in the suns light will keep the astral fire alive within the salt and spirit. It will keep it alive while digesting the gold with it. Why do you think Christian Rosenkreuz ( Founder of the Rosicrucian order) used mirrors and lenses aswell a glass globe to concentrate the suns light to make his stone? How the moon reflects sun light during night time and activates the oxygen into o3 in the dew. The moon uses the Uv light aka astral fire and as a key to bring the universal solvent alive. O3 is found in the tree kingdoms, plant kingdom, animal kingdom, and mineral kingdom. Its even found on Mars. Without o3 we would all die due to no atmosphere and tons of bacteria out of control. It is the element that made life possible. It is universal and found everywhere and even on dead planets.

Ps. If you need articles on proof of FDA being against it. Proof of it being used by doctors. Proof within books and even the EMERALD TABLETS OF HERMES. Proof of it on planets or how its found in plants and minerals. Or how life needs it and cant be without it. How it supports all life from instinction. Ill be happy to give references. I got a ton of sites with books and info on my bookmarks.

Without o3 and Uv light your stone will fail. o3/Uv light - equal astral fire. I will also note that i added some of the salt i made from my u-rine into a liquid remedy i made. U-rine has oxygen. I put it out in the sun from day to day. I successfully got rid of a wrinkle i had on my forehead and even the one on my left eye from adding this remedy. I have celiac, an immune system disorder and i have continuous damage to my body. Also i will note that white blood cells create anti bodies and these anti bodies create o3 to destroy bacteria or viruses. I will also note i haven't been sick in over 2 yrs in a half due to my body producing o3 from my antibodies. In other words no infections at all. I've been around people with the flue or anything else and i don't get sick. Nor do i get shots.

By activating oxygen in the sun into o3. The o3 can render any poison in the making of the stone, neutral and give you the ability to make the medicine you need. Remember how the Rosicrucians spoke of the universal solvent as being the key to neutralize the poisons into a medicine along with gold or silver. Christian Rosenkreuz used the o3 successfully to make his stone in the suns light. Now alkahest are solvents made from other mineral elements while universal solvent is of activated oxygen in the sun. Can you mix these alkahests with the universal solvent? Yes and its part of the paths in alchemy. Utilizing mercury, alkaline, or even nitre or any other element along with the universal solvent. Will make sure you don't end up addicted or dead from the stone.

To bluefloor, yes the prime material is the o3 aka universal solvent. Nick is absolutely right. It makes a tincture or in other words the lesser form of the stone. Yes you can make a red glass ruby stone with o3 and gold, but it will not be at full strength. Yet it will cure you and renew your youth, but if you want to live 200 yrs or more like the Rosicrucian. You need to use more powerful elements along with the universal solvent of o3. This will give you the ability to live longer than a 100 yrs. Also i understand about the occult speaking here. I will keep it out and speak of alchemy only.

Also o3 can be found in fire, earth, water, and air. Air is its holder, fire needs it to stay alive, earth or to say minerals has it as a salt inside, and water or H2O has it as part of its chemical form. O and with two electrons is oxygen and unlocked by the suns Uv light as O with three electrons.

Now with this prime material o3 that should be used from beginning to end within sunlight and moonlight. You will understand how to follow alchemy in the right path and utilize the other paths shown to you by the alchemist of the past. Hermes made it so obvious that he gave the secret thousands of yrs ago. The moon will activate the oxygen in dew into o3 during the night. Where the sun activates oxygen into o3 during the day. Lightning storms will activate it in clouds. Remember the path of the ancient alchemist to collect water from a lightning storm before it falls on the earth.

Also i've had my flask outside for 6 months. Why? It is to utilize the alchemical phases of nature to make a perfect liquid. To later separate it into a salt and spirit like i did two months ago from a small amount. Sun will activate the oxygen into o3 to keep the bacteria at minimal without damaging the substance in the flask. While the left over bacteria or the bacteria that form during the night will produce nitre. In other words bacteria can come to live in goo like liquid of oxygen during the night of minimal Uv radiation. While in the day time they are destroyed by the activated oxygen. So its a back and forth alchemical process of life like organisms producing chemicals in the flask and then death of these organisms to purify the flask into the medicine or key to say needed for the stone.

Note: o3 at high levels can be toxic, but when made into a purified salt. Will be the key to alchemy's biggest secret. Its brought under control within the salt and spirit. To be mixed with gold, will convert gold into a substance as its destroyed by the universal solvent of o3, but later this substance of destroyed gold adheres to itself into a new element. Its like saying gold turned inside out and you get the tincture. When left to coagulate or dry longer in the flask.. A stone appears in the left over spirit liquid with the universal salt made one with it.

Very Interesting. How are lenses utilized in this process as you said you left the flask in the sun for 6 months. Will the Lenses and mirrors speed up this process and how do you use them with moon. Just reflect the light of the moon with the lense like you do with the sun?

Colorless (or faintly blue), unstable (reactive), and water soluble gas having chlorine-like odor, and formed in the upper atmosphere by the action of solar radiation on oxygen. Its presence as a layer in stratosphere serves as a screen (called ozone shield) to block harmful ultraviolet radiation from reaching the earth's surface. At ground level it is formed by the combination of hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides in the presence of sunlight and is the main ingredient of smog. In high-enough concentrations it can reduce lung function, inflame lung tissue, and cause coughing, shortness of breath, and other respiratory problems. Excessive exposure can result in permanent lung damage. Used commercially for bleaching, deodorizing, and disinfecting. Also called iriatomic oxygen or trioxygen. See also ozone layer.

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:57 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:08 am

Very intresting indeed and thank you for sharing.
Now how do you convert ozone into a solid?
(Its power is entire if it be converted into Earth)
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:36 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:47 am

Ozone is a pale blue gas, slightly soluble in water and much more soluble in inert non-polar solvents such as carbon tetrachloride or fluorocarbons, where it forms a blue solution. At 161 K (−112 °C; −170 °F), it condenses to form a dark blue liquid. It is dangerous to allow this liquid to warm to its boiling point, because both concentrated gaseous ozone and liquid ozone can detonate. At temperatures below 80 K (−193.2 °C; −315.7 °F), it forms a violet-black solid. Ozone is a powerful oxidizing agent, far stronger than O2. It is also unstable at high concentrations, decaying to ordinary diatomic oxygen (with a half-life of about half an hour in atmospheric conditions)
2 O3 → 3 O2
Ozone will oxidize most metals (except gold, platinum, and iridium) to oxides of the metals in their highest oxidation state. For example:
2 Cu+ + 2 H3O+ + O3 → 2 Cu2+ + 3 H2O + O2
cuprous ion insoluble (red) cupric - water soluble (green)

there is a big difference compared to peroxides and hypochlorite (bleach)

In alchemy we may be making salt ozonides (that rearange to molozonides or oxalanes) Li, Na, K, Cs or metal ozonides as shown previously. Be VERY CAREFUL with these things.

I forgot to mention that O3 cures aids by simply bubbling ozone in the blood and reinjecting it - (autotransfusion or autochemotherapy - interstingly it works sometimes even without O3 - the body somehow immunizes itself). O3 kills all the virus selectively. No more deadly vaccinations. And remember what Nick would say about big pharma
The text I wanted to post is too long so I ll share a bit a the end. Ozone generators are availlable, but if anyone asks, it is for pest control, agriculture or veterenary medicine. Its safer to buy them from canada or australia or even build one. I have a simple water ozonizer - the taste is different, refreshing and hair after washing very smooth as well as the skin. My garden has changed drastically after using O3 water
O3 is formed during thunderstorms and some ppl get a headache after the rain.

#1 cancer killer in the US is colon cancer. A company (medical ozone) that sold medical ozone devices, that would cure this disease (by ozonization of bowels) was immediatly shut down by the FDA - reason? It was unsafe, one could hurt himself in the process! Millions of dollars of equipment was seized and the owners sent to court.
Ozone reacts with metals to form ozonides which are soluble but explosive. By simply bubbling O3 in (buffered) cold solution one can effect this. Why does one collect dew at night at fool moon? While O3 may be formed under direct sunlight its half life is short short in warm water during daytime.
Olive oil may be ozonized and use topically or as an oral supplement - not for frying. O3 gas penetrates wood, cloth, plastic and can be inhaled in small concentration for health and rejuvaenation (what Michael Jackson would do, Im not gonna make that joke now...rsrs)
The Vice President of the German Society for Ozone, Dr. Hartmut Baltin reported he's treating AIDS patients
in a study in his vascular clinic.

some of the numerous O3 studies
Occlusive lower limb arterial disease - O. Rokitansky, J.
Washuttl and L. Groger - Austria
Occlusive lower limb arterial disease - R. Mattassi - Italy
Immune monitoring - H Baltin - Germany
Artherosclerosis - N. Zhulina, C. Kontorschikova and N. Morozova - Russia
Cardiopathology - F. Hernandez et al - Cuba
Hypoxic states - S. Peretyagin - Russia
Hypoxic impairments - C. Kontorschikova - Russia
Myocardium fractals - A. Gavrilushkin, S. Peretyagin and O. Birjukova - Russia
Chelation - M. Foster - U.S.A.
Diverse Pathology - G. Glady - France
Dermatology - S. L. Krivatkin - Russia
Staph - T. Shimoyama et. al. Japan
Sickle Cell Anemia - M. Gomez et. al. - Cuba
Ozone produced auto vaccine - J. Greenberg - Germany
Rheumatic diseases - Z. Fahmy - Germany
Catostrophic injured children - S. N. Gorbunov et. al. - Russia
Rectal Insufflation of Rats study - S. Mendez et. al. - Cuba
Genetics - E. Prieto et al - Cuba
Anaesthetized horses - P. Scrollavezza et. al. - Italy
Optic Nerve disfunction - R. Santiesteban et. al. - Cuba
Cerebro vascular accident - E. Devesa - Cuba
Senile Dementia - M.M. Rodriguez et. al. - Cuba
Malignant disease - H. Kief - Germany
Breast cancer - R. Dallaglio et. al. - Italy
Neurodermatitis - H. Kief - Germany
Digestive System - M. Noa - Cuba
Germ free lab animals - J.M. Mirabal et. al. - Cuba
Quoting Seigfried Rilling, the President Of the German Medical Society for Ozone in his talk on the Germany
History of European Ozone, "...Ozone only serves Humanity"

Thnx FTRL!

PS- Raziel rules Chokmah planetary sphere of neptune

Giant lense for Sol collexn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkgFk15uBxw&feature=player_embedded

Peace Light and Love


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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:55 am

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PostSubject: sodium and potassium ozonide   Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:53 am

To get liquid ozone u need to freeze it in freon or carbon tetrachloride (banned carcinogen and hepatotoxin) and its not an easy or a safe thing to do even in the lab. To have it in solid form is to ozonize (oxidize - transfer O3 to substrate - a salt) like sodium (sea salt) or potassium (nitre)

However salt ozonides are not very stable (especially on sunlight, UV), they need to be trapped (reacted with) by gold before they decompose. The trick is to continously form it and react it. (steady state equilibrium)
No chemist has ever studied the moon UV intensity and subsequent formation of ozone. There was a baron who did an extensive study on moonlight - its specific frequencies (which he separated by a prism) and its effect on sleepwalkers and mediums. As well light absorbtion in metals and crystals. I will post it soon. Do an experiment take a glass of water, put a crystal inside (simple quartz or anything transparent) and leave it in the sun for 15 min. Compare the taste with control. The same can be done placing the cup on a copper decagon indors. Water gets energized. Look at wilhelm reichs work and orgone. Thats deeps space, cosmic radiation topic for another discussion...

Alkali metal ozonides
Lithium ozonide (LiO3) is a red solid which is produced from lithium ozonide (white) via an ion-exchange process.
Sodium ozonide (NaO3) is a red solid which is produced from sodium ozonide via an ion-exchange process.

ut bfirst by ozonization of the correponding alkali salts (alkhaest=alkali = basic PH less than 7)

Potassium ozonide (KO3) is a dark red solid which is produced when potassium is burned in ozone or exposed to air for years.
Rubidium ozonide (RbO3) is a dark red solid which is produced when rubidium is burned in ozone.
Caesium ozonide (CsO3) is a dark red solid which is produced when caesium is burned in ozone

Stages of the stone = white, purification, pure salt. (reChristalized - see my other post) Red = fire = salt ozonide (salt, body charged with astral(UV, ozone) fire).
I think that the process can be vastly accelerated by bubbling 03 from a generator (can be homemade) instead the long putrification.

Before recieving the Holy Spirit one must be clean.
In kabala thera are 4 worlds = mineral - earth water = plant animal = air and consciousness = fire. Evolution for mineral kingdom is billions of years, water less, air successive incarnations. For the human race (a small majority, first 3 evolution are completed) the only thing missing is the regaining of divine fire. Making the stone is evolution and repair from the fall in microcosm.
Superoxides are yellow. Here is an example (incorrectly it is labeled as ozonide on the website)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37388341@N00/1496251147/

Can someone get this publication at a university?
Synthesis and crystal structure determination of sodium ozonide
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/1998/cc/a708570b/unauth
thnx!

So much from the born again whatever...I hope that all of us will be one day.

PS Colloidal gold (gold citrate) and similiar comlexes are red. There is also gold nano star rods and hexagons. Lately, gold deposited on graphene - nobel chemistry last year (graphene - like inorganic benzene sheets)
Ore et Labore


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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:03 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:06 am

This is trully very enlightening and personally thank Neptune and Msagei for their information.But i got confused in here.How do we produce this O3 in our flasks without the use of special machines etc.?
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:12 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:49 am

So,is it ok if i gather sea water and let it putrify or be distilled in the sunlight and the moonlight?
I have quite a large amount of sea water since i am by the beach.What do you mean prepared gold?And to which process are we reffering exactly here,the one in Nick's book?
Thanks for the books although and sorry if i become a pain in the neck but i have a tendency to be sure about most things and i cant keep myself at the moment geek
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:50 am

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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:05 pm

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Last edited by F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:27 am; edited 3 times in total
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NEPTUNE

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Registration date : 2012-11-28

PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:47 pm

I would evaporate sea water to get the salt. (ocean has gold ppb, rhodium, platinum etc and probably radiocative elements like uranium - french alchemist Cau believes thats the secret - uranite - pitchblend). And after FUCKushima theres more. Some use dead sea salt from israel (residues from an ancient nuclear war - sodom, gomora, babylon etc)
For the spirit I would use the dewor rain.
Recrystalize with it a couple of times. Dew and rain has archea - astral microbes capable of trnsmtnxn. and leave it an BM 40 days at 42 celsius see if anything grows. Then do the distillations and sun exposure. Just an idea. I had weird stuff growing in rainwater in plain sunlight after a few months.
or
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/homemade-ozone-generator-build-your-own-ozone-generator.html
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AmonD

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Registration date : 2013-01-12

PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:38 pm

Thanks a lot Msagei and you Neptune.
So,in simple words,the whole process is just separating the salt and its spirit,purifing each individually,then rejoining them together to form the solvent,dissolve and digest the gold within them and done.Correct?

Now for the wet or dry path,i ve been hearing these words a lot but each person to say it is reffering to a completely different proccess discribed by different persons.Any specifications on which "wet" or "dry" path are you guys reffering to?
(if possible send me a link for the texts in pm or email if in case i dont posses em plz)

And for Neptune,
thanks for the ozone generator but i am curious if anybody knows how to make it without the use of machines or electricity? Back in the 16th century there were no generators so how exactly did they capture IT?
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PostSubject: Re: ..........   Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:39 pm

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Last edited by F.T.R.L. MsageiAlchemist on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:27 am; edited 8 times in total
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