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 The Properties of the Salt of Man

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cocojambo



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PostSubject: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 07, 2013 5:32 pm

Basically... properties of the GW salts.

Melting point has been isolated to somewhere from 900f to 1000f. So a calcination temperature of about 900f is your maximum. The solidified salt is basically opaque until about 900f, at which point it becomes more transparent, but does not melt.

Boiling point is somewhere between 1300f and 1400f

It can form triangular and rectangular crystals.

Eventually I'm going to try and see if there's a lab of some sort that can determine what chemical compound this is. Does anybody know what type of lab can achieve this?
http://misterguch.brinkster.net/identify.html
So I need to perform a spectrographic analysis?


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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 07, 2013 5:39 pm

Seriously, you lurkers suck clown
I see the view count going up.

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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Wed May 08, 2013 11:28 am

The forum also counts every time you check the thread Wink
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NEPTUNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Wed May 08, 2013 4:39 pm

You probably have silica, do you recrystallize it from distilled water or dew? It should be H20 soluble while Si isnt.
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Wed May 08, 2013 7:09 pm

I'm sure there is some silica in the mix, but that's not all it is considered this is the salt from the GW1 path. I use only distilled or RO water for these experiments.
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NEPTUNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Thu May 09, 2013 12:55 pm

Do you filter or decant before recrystallization?
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Thu May 09, 2013 4:07 pm

Of course. I'm following the GW1 path, and that's what it says to do.

I calcine at 800f for three hours or more until it all stops smoking. Then I boil the calcined matter for 1 hour, settle, filter, settle, filter.
Then I crystallize out.

--
Also I'm talking about salts that have been powdered, that is why it is opaque. I presume this is why you ask if it is silica.
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Sun May 19, 2013 1:29 pm

GW well putrified is red - filtering before distillation will yield a white glassy precipitate (+ brown crap which I discard) that is insoluble and very high mp. (looks like silica)

I dont think that u should see smoke at all - u are burning the stuff and in the end the material is insoulble and black. (volatile salt is wanted)
How di u measure an mp. of 500 celsius anyway?

Gently distill and keep it calcining for a day ( not at 800 - too high! ) then add the spirit and filter and continue distillation - do u have Nicks book?
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Sun May 19, 2013 9:47 pm

That black scoria can be melted if it's brought to 2000F with a plumbers torch. When it melts it becomes a snow white water soluble stone (wish I had a picture). This white salt posesses all the properties of the unfermented white stone.

I tried such an extreme temperature because of mary the prophetess. I also found this in "the water stone of the wise" :

"xxxii. LEAH, the prophetess, writes briefly thus: Know, Nathan, that the flower of gold is the Stone; therefore subject it to heat during a certain number of days, till it assumes the dazzling appearance of white marble."

It's rather creepy that it actually used my name. (how did that happen?)
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Mon May 20, 2013 8:08 pm

@NEPTUNE
I agree, well putrefied GW is indeed a reddish color. That was something else I wanted to mention. This is how you know it is probably "ripe" or what have you. Here's a photo below showing the effect. Note the color differences between the ripe and not quite ripe. (No, this absolutely is not because the batches of \"philosophical dew\" were originally more concentrated).


At first the GW will be a brownish yellow. The first sign of proper putrefaction is a white earth. Then after that it will darken and taken on a more reddish color. Putrefaction occurs best at warmer temperatures, so it is clearly a byproduct of bacteria in the environment. The white earth takes like 2 weeks to appear. But the redness takes 30 days, and possibly more. If it's not darkened and reddish I presume the salt might not be as powerful though I could be wrong.

Yes, I actually have a paperback of Nick's book Covenant of Silence, 2nd edition (Guess it's a rare now?)
I'm following GW1 dry path. When I say smoke I mean the smoke is from calcining the phlegm, not from the purified salts.

Temperatures were calculated roughly simply by using an electric kiln. I had some thermocouples near the crucible with salt. I raised the temperature bit by bit. it's not perfect, but it'll do.


There are indeed some crystals which are insoluble, it's kind of odd. The amount varies per batch and it seems to come and go, but I don't think it's the salt. I think that just might be some silica that's excreted in \"philosophical dew\", so the amount varies, and hence the high boiling point.

Are you getting a vastly different MP and BP for your GW1 salts, NEPTUNE?

From 1 gallon of GW one can obtain a nice 45 grams of the salt. (yes, I zeroed out the weight of the coffee filter first... duh)




==================
Another thing I wanted to mention was that green stuff some people got on the outside of their crucibles. I recall alexbr had a nice photo of it. I got some too, but with a graphite crucible. It is related to the au/salt, not the crucible. I heated some pure salt to melting point, but below boiling point. I submerged a 1gram bar of gold in it. I took it out and not much seems to happen, which blasted a partial hole in my theory that the process works below the salt's boilng point.

However today I look at my piece of gold and I saw a bit of salt that remained, and it is now a green blob on the piece of gold which I did not notice before. The green blob is from the salt. I poked it with a needle point and it was brittle like the salt.
(naysayers will say that I've been fooled into buying brass or something... I'm an idiot, but not that much. I already tested the au on nitric it doesn't dissolve.)

Perhaps this indicates a partial action of the salt on the gold @<(salt's boilng point).

Another thing I just remembered, three different people now have gotten a green substance by working with GW salts and Au.


alexbr gets green stuff from his dry path GW salts and Au.
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t229p270-gw-method-3#5566
Alexbr had an alumina (?) crucible.

user "Kirk" gets green stuff from this wet path and GW salts and Au
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t229p240-gw-method-3
Everyone was telling him the green was from copper, but I don't know about that... I don't think Kirk is so stupid that he can't identify gold.

I get green stuff... twice.
Once by dry path (pine green), once by experimentation with liquid salt and Au. (with alumina and graphite)

I really doubt three people have all been fooled into buying brass. The greenness seems to be a stage in the action of the salt on the Au. But if you're pessimistic, it's possible the green stuff is simply due to the salt itself decomposing or something, which is also possible, and I should test the salt alone before making any more statements.

Now Kirk with the wet path got the green over many weeks. I got the green via experimentation a few weeks ago by melting the salt (under its boiling point), submerging a gold bar in it. The green appeared much more quickly. This was at < 1200f.

So if I got some green at <1200f and we assume the green is indicative of the process working... Dry path... probably faster.

If we were to follow this line of though... a relation between speed of conversion to stone and tmperature... what if instead of 2000f 1 hr, or room temp 75f months... 1000f weeks, 1500 days... etc. Solve some sealing problems perhaps?
===================
Another interesting effect of the salt is that when a boiling solution of the saltwater is is dripped onto copper, it will instantly oxidize it. This doesn't work with just hot water.



Last edited by cocojambo on Mon May 20, 2013 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Mon May 20, 2013 9:58 pm

I recall reading that a dissolvement of gold is either green or yellow before it turns into the deep red. Some alchemy books call this the crowning of the king. One way or another that green stuff IS the philosopher's stone in an intermediate stage before reddening. It only needs to be concocted/digested/macerated/refluxed in a BM bath with just enough fresh dew to dissolve it. A sealed flask is ideal for this.

At any rate you should see the peacocks tail color changes which end in a deep red crystal. In 40 days you will ,without a doubt, have the philosopher's stone.
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Mon May 20, 2013 10:17 pm

solarseeker wrote:
I recall reading that a dissolvement of gold is either green or yellow before it turns into the deep red. Some alchemy books call this the crowning of the king. One way or another that green stuff IS the philosopher's stone in an intermediate stage before reddening. It only needs to be concocted/digested/macerated/refluxed in a BM bath with just enough fresh dew to dissolve it. A sealed flask is ideal for this.

At any rate you should see the peacocks tail color changes which end in a deep red crystal. In 40 days you will ,without a doubt, have the philosopher's stone.
Hot damn,thank you for sharing.
cheers
Had no idea about that.
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NEPTUNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 21, 2013 12:52 pm

I get the same white powder (without distillation) that doesnt melt or burn on a gas stove - thats why I think its silica (+its insoluble) or the material described in my post Dewterium-cold fusion.

GW can get darker if u putrify it in the Sun in a glass container .

GW 1 says calcine for 3 hours but doesnt indicate the temperature. Gw 2 an 3 state = gentle heat. I still think that u are burning the material (humble opinion of a chemist). All that I read indicates that we are after a water soluble salt that upon heating with gold polymerizes into something similiar that we are getting but red

Green may be the first stage of Peacock (gold hydroxide is green).

Submit it for elemental analysis (not C, H, N) but Si, Ca, Na, K, Au, Ag maybe Pd, Rh its pricy
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 21, 2013 1:50 pm

Yeah, I think the silica is normally dissolved in solution, but as it putrefies it crystallizes out. If it's there in the salt, it's not a big deal, it won't contaminate it. But that's not the right salt and can be filtered out. The right salt is sort of waxy and has the weird characteristic of fusing tightly with things, whether glass, ceramic, metals, etc.

I opted for GW1 because it seemed the fastest. The other one required a storm and a clay lined hole (lol what?), and another required a long digestion. GW3 seems more or less the same as GW1, except it uses digestion to extract the crystals... I'm not the most patient person in the world and I figured it's basically the same as GW1 then, except the salt extract is more protracted.

Which material are you suggesting is burned? I'm not sure we're on the same page. The phlegm from \"philosophical dew\" needs to be burned since it's a calcination.
I respect your opinion but I think the salt can't really be harmed or burned since it's supposed to fuse with Au at like 2,000f. This is what someone else pointed out to be. If the salt could be burned and damaged, how can it fuse with Au at 2,000f.

alexbr got plenty of green, he should take his powder, recombine it with fresh salt and try again then, maybe it'll turn red then.
The green only appears on the outside of crucibles when they are corroded. I'm not sure what kind of crucible alexbr has there, it's kind of weird, it looks like graphite, but what's the white stuff? Anyways when graphite is corroded by air at high temps it gets porous and then the stuff inside the crucible will begin to leak out. That's the only time I got green leaking through a crucible. The other time I heated for a shorter period and there was no leakage...So it's important during the fusing of salt/au that we also control the process in a way that this won't happen to the crucible.

I sent you a PM.

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alexbr



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 21, 2013 2:07 pm

Hi cocojambo
in the past I used crucibles of porcelain and crystal to avoid contamination with graphite but after a pco need to change them and they cost a lot to do when I tried with that of stainless matter gw salt has pierced
so I can and I succeed ( but in this moment i must wait it for economomic crisis ) i buy a new oven and try again the last one is brown corroded by this hard salt that became very very corrosive

my best regards alexbr
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 21, 2013 3:33 pm

I see. I chose graphite because it has incredibly high stability and it the salt wont' fuse with it. With ceramics and glasses the salt fuses with it and you can't separate it out anymore. The stone will too.




@NEPTUNE
It is interesting you suggest it is AuOH. But I'm confused why it's green? On Wikipedia it is described as "vivid dark yellow crystals", not green.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold(III)_hydroxide

But at the same time... on Nick's old site he had photos of a green liquid he said was gold hydroxide... and it's green.
http://philosophicalmercury.page.tl/Blue-Gold.htm

===========
The compound is also a neutral salt.
Taste is sour/salty, with variations.
Solubility in water is pretty high.
No observable solubility in 95% ethanol.

Flame just seems to be a regular orangish yellow... nothing special.

NaOH solution + GW1 salt solution -> seems like no reaction...
Nitric acid + GW1 salt -> seems like no reaction...
HCl + GW1 salt -> solution turns faint yellow
GW1 salt + Hg at room temperature -> nothing.

===========

while I don't agree that there are cyanides in _______, the other part of solarseeker's theory that potassium is important rings true to me... so eating lots of potassium rich foods or taking a simple colloidal or ionic potassium supplement might be greatly beneficial.

It seems the \"philosophical dew\" salt works through two angles... breaking down the gold physically, and the potassium might be doing something to the resulting colloids once they are heated.


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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Tue May 21, 2013 5:00 pm

hi cocojambo and NEPTUNE as I have already say in the my post http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t229p270-gw-method-3
my post of the : Sab Ott 27, 2012 10:03 am
so in the past in my experimet in the result of the fusion of the salt
there are various and different colors result of salt BUT N.B. ALL this result of this different coloro arrived with the fusions of the salts only WIHT NOT THE ADDITTION AT THE SALT OF GOLD OR SILVER OR OTHER METAL !!!
and IMHO this occurs when the salts are cooled in I post fact I was doubtful and i made this hypothesis (i am a pragmatic and extremely empirical and sant tommaso ) that the salts that tremely corrosive are taking the color by ari types of vessels composotin ans percentual also in same material of vessel is diiferent so IMHO arrived different color) which had merged while others argue that most mystics (others members of this group of derivation rc ) say are the characteristics of planetary colri and and therefore that the various colorations were the different attractions of the spiritus and that each color is a type of phase I sincerely elixir I am very skeptical about what and I think they are only the corrosion of vessels by salts

my best regards alexbr

:::::::::::::::::here the exact original italian:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


salve cocojambo e NEPTUNE come ho gia detto nel mio post
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t229p270-gw-method-3
my : post of the Sab Ott 27, 2012 10:03 am
nel passato dopo la fusione del sale risultavano vari colori di sale solo con la fusioni dei sali e NB tutto cio risultava solo con la fusione dei sali senza aassolutamete altre aggiunte di oro argento o altri metalli SOLO SALI e ciò avviene quando i sali messi in fusione si raffreddano io nel post infatti ero dubbioso e ipotizzavo ( esendo pragmatico e estremamente empirico e san tommaso ) che visto che i sali che sono stremamente corrosivi prendevano il colore dai ari tipi di vasi in cui erano fusi (composizione che anche se i vasi sono della stessa materia e da vaso a vao differente e le prcentuali dei materiali che compongono i vasi sono a volte anche variano da cio imho risultano differenti colori ) altri invece più mistici (altri membri di questo gruppo di derivazione rc ) sostengono che sono le caratteristiche dei colri planetari e dunque che le varie colorazzioni erano le diverse attrazioni delle spiritus e che ogni colore è un tipo di fase di elixir io sinceramente sono molto scettico su cio e penso che siano solo la corrosione dei vasi da parte dei sali

cordiali saluti alexbr


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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Thu May 23, 2013 12:06 am

This time I fiddled with the temperature some more...

Got brittle yellow and brittle green green material. Mostly yellow. "younger" than the green. The yellow is porous like molten sulfur from the salt boiling.
This is a first.

Yellow -> green -> red?

None of these colored substances dissolve in h2o. The salt no longer dissolves after heating at 1900f+ either.

Something unique about getting this young yellow product that's not present in the green. A rotten eggs smell. Independently confirmed by two people.

"Oh cocojambo, you're 100% retarded, it's obvious your salt is contaminated with sulfur."
To that I will kindly disagree. At most I am 99% retarded. The yellow substance is a very fine dispersion of gold, I speculate. As the salt continues to act on the Au, the particles grow smaller, and thus the color changes.
http://www.mynanogold.com/gold_samps.jpg
Note the colors... from clear to green to orangish (and obviously red which is not present here)

I think it might be some sort of sulfur compound. I don't know why the salt itself doesn't have the smell. I guess it's a result of some sort of chemical change from the heat.
The yellow substance absolutely does not burn. It forms hard, strong pellets that no longer dissolve in H2O.



So... where does the sulfur come from? Bacteria breaking down sulfur containing proteins? Bacteria converting sulfur in the air (?? seems less likely).


http://franklin.chem.colostate.edu/diverdi/C433/experiments/HPLC%\"philosophical dew\"%20analysis/NASA%20CR-1802%\"philosophical dew\".pdf



(Alchemists are always talking about vitriol this, vitriol that...
I've never had much patience as far as riddle solving... but I'm pretty sure vitriols are sulfur compounds. This is somewhat interesting...)
So possibly this GW salt is a sulfur containing salt... which possibly decomposes when heated...



So one step closer to the holy grail... no more protracting 30 day waits to let \"philosophical dew\" putrefy. I'm 80% sure this salt is a known chemical compound that, once identified, can easily be purchased kilos at a time.
Once identified, we can just go online, buy a bag of "salt" and start experimenting.
Then it'll be a 7 day wait for delivery.... another 7 days at most to get yourself a glowing stage 5 stone. sunny

Mass production baby!
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NEPTUNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 am

GW 1

2. A black feces will remain, which you must calcine for three hours (NO TEMPERATURE INDICATED), then dissolve (H20 SOLUBLE) in pure distilled ordinary waterand boil for two hours. From this you will make your salt.

From many texts that I ve read, one must be carefull not to destroy the salt at this stage by excessive heat

3. Remove it from the heat and let any newly formed material sink to the bottom (INSOLUBLE CRAP), then carefully decant the top water into another flask. OR FILTER

4. Boil the water down until it becomes so saturated, a small flux appears to be forming. (SUPERSATURATION) This is the sign it's ready to be placed in the cold (a refrigerator). A clear salt will sprout (SEED CRYSTALS), which is far purer than the black feces you started with, but
still can be purified further. RECRYSTALLIZATION

SOLUBLE SALT IS WHAT U WANT. If you burn it at #2 the rest is useless.
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Wed May 29, 2013 8:52 pm

Herm the new colored salts don't combine with water. In that case perhaps they can be ground and melted with more GW salt. Once those combine you might be able to get a dissolvemnt. Did you try boiling water by any chance? Heat increases the dissolvement rate for soluble salts.

Btw thanks for the articles I always like finding new gems which Nick hid across the web. I still stand by my original statement that the GW salt produces cyanide because that's one of the reaction products produced by thermal decomposition of urea. If I were to choose a modern chemical to substitute for GW to make the stone with I would use cyanurea (pool chemical) and potassium chloride (road de-icer)

Oh and in response to the question "where did the sulfur come from?" It's a minor component of GW.

Update: I just read a book posted by another user called "Collectanea Chemica" Here's what it has to say on the green and yellow crystals you have:
"WHEN the putrefaction of our seed has been thus completed, the fire may be increased till glorious colours appear, which the Sons of Art have called Cauda Pavonis, or the Peacock's Tail. These colours come and go, as heat is administered approaching to the third degree, till all is of a beautiful green, and as it ripens assumes a perfect whiteness, which is the White Tincture, transmuting the inferior metals into silver, and very powerful as a medicine. But as the artist well knows it is capable of a higher concoction; he goes on increasing his fire till it assumes a yellow, then an orange or citron colour; and then boldly gives a heat of the fourth degree, till it acquires a redness like blood taken from a sound person, which is a manifest sign of its thorough concoction and fitness for the uses intended."

So what you need to do to ripen your stone is raise the temperature higher. cheers
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:28 pm

solarseeker.

Shoot me a PM.



Also, found this.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/news/2007/october/18100702.asp


Very interesting... thiol sulfurs...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organosulfur_compound
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:17 pm

NEPTUNE, if the salt could be burned and destroyed during calcining, then how could this path possibly work if it is to be combined with gold at 2,000f? Please explain. It would appear then that everybody's salt would be irreversibly destroyed as the temperature is ramped up to gold's melting point.
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:16 am

It would be transmuted and fused with gold. All that I read indicates my hypothesis. It is recrystallized a few times before melting it with gold which means that it must be soluble. (filter or decant the insolubles) Otherwise the mercury escapes. 

Do you get a red oil with the insolubles?
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cocojambo



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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:27 am

Can you be more specific, I have no idea what steps you are referring to as far as "insolubles". The only insoluble component in this path is the calcined phlegm, and maybe small amounts of silica contaminants.

No need to get hung up on the insolubles... The insoluble silica was just an interesting observation, and not a significant aspect or difficulty of the work at all.




Since the freshly leached salt is always soluble, and you say that the salt must be soluble or the mercury escapes, therefore the mercury cannot escape.

Thus I'm not sure why you were saying that calcining at high temps could destroy the mercury then?

I've never gotten any red oils at any stage. The recipe doesn't reference anything like that either. I'm talking about GW1 not GW3.
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PostSubject: Re: The Properties of the Salt of Man   Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:06 pm

GW 3 from Nick´s book:

evaporate the remaining phlegm to dryness - at minimal temperature

3. Now FILTER the spirit so its free of the residue (INSOLUBLES), and place it in a clean distillation flask. Then distill the spirit off GENTLY
until a skin begins forming on the surface of the water. This
is the sign that the solution is now supersaturated, and can
be placed in a fridge so beautiful bright red and dark red
transparent crystals will grow.

This is recrystallization and may be repeated a few times to increase purity. All this work is done at minimal temperature nothing sholud exceed 100 celsius IMHO.

If u calcine it at high temp, mercury is lost and salt is burned. In a sealed crucible - nowhere to flee. understand now?

I meant red glass instead of oil
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