The Lost Academy

created for Alchemy-Illuminated.com and run by Nick Collette
 
HomeCalendarGalleryFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:00 pm

Hello Everyone,

I have a couple of questions. I am reading and watching Steven Alex School's line of books and DVD's on Alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone.

While I truly believe these books/DVD's are a lifesaver to cut through misinformation, I am still confused with a couple of things.

Namely, the identities of the: Prima Materia, Green Lion, and Gur. If anyone could provide me books to research, or can point me in the right direction, that would be great.

I have some ideas as to what these are, but I can't be sure. In one of Steven School's writings, there is a quote on pg. 26, he says:

"The ancients referred to the Prima Materia as gur, which is short for the green lion which our substance contains within itself."

What confuses me, is he seems to be saying that the Green Lion is the same substance as the Prima Materia/Gur.

So, I have a couple of theories. I am:

1.) Completely incorrect to assume the identicalness of these three substances.

OR

2.) The Prima Materia, Gur, and Green Lion can be many different things. Maybe these archetypes are not limited to one substance each. They could be many different substances within the three kingdoms. Perhaps they represent both one ultimate, substance in the Great Work, also.
------------------
Also, does anyone have any idea what is meant by "Centric Salt"?

Thanks again guys, this is my first post here, and I'm happy to contribute. If anyone needs help with anything, and I can provide assistance,  I will.

Have a good day!


Last edited by tb2000 on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:48 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
thepassamist

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 212
Registration date : 2013-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:38 pm

tb2000 wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I have a couple of questions. I am reading and watching Steven Alex School's line of books and DVD's on Alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone.

While I truly believe these books/DVD's are a lifesaver to cut through misinformation, I am still confused with a couple of things.


Not sure who this Steven Alex is.



As far your other two questions, I will first say that if you come to a forum, any forum, or ask pretty much anyone seriously interested in alchemy and has any knowledge, you will never be told what the prime materia is. You will probably be given answers that seem to be riddles, parables, allegories, etc. Does not mean the answer you are given is incorrect, just means you are not understanding the answer.

The seed of metals (since everyone initially seems to be drawn to the lure of gold) is a secret. yet its descriptions are given plain as day. On the other hand, the universal Alkahest is the biggest secret. yet it is also clearly discribed repeatedly.

I will say that first i would purchase the RAMS digital library, as it contains the most useful and truthful info there is in one spot. http://www.ramsdigital.com/buy.html

I would start with plants, ie spygarics, before going to metals as metals can be dangerous, especially when you are guessing ingredients. Alchemy is so much more than trying to change metals to other things. Alchemy is the true science. The original science. dates back older than anything we are taught in schools. Plus the more you learn about it, the more you can find the truth in the science compared to schools today feeding garbage that you cant prove in your back yard.

another thing, alchemy is simple. Learn Nature and how she works. Dont be fooled by all these schools charging so much telling you that you need lots of labware and furnaces. In truth, the stone can be made for nothing. less than 20 bucks and you can buy what you need, and mimick nature to supply the rest. Alot can be learned from teachers and schools, but there is a growing hype of "alchemists" selling knowledge and products (tinctures, oils, stones) that know very little of the art themselves aside from the very basics.

lets see.... oh yea, mercury, sulphur, and salt. Ignore the names, learn the meanings. when you read a alchemy book, ignore what they are calling substances, focus on the hidden meaning, what are they doing with the substances, and what are the qualities and results during the stages. It is SOOO easy to get lost in a transcript and feel like your head is spinning. The secret of the stone is a secret intentionally. and always will be. Its Gods way. Since the beginning of man, alchemy has been there.

study the vessel, which is more important the the materials anyways. there is more than one way to produce the stone, but the vessel, aye the vessel must be proper.

I know I am rambling a little, I am kinda bored lol, so just go with it. Study the egyptians and other ancient cultures. I was once told astronomy, geometry, and alchemy are the only sciences man ever needs to know. they are all connected. study Nature. study nature more. the internet is great for gathering information, but also great a complicating what should be a simple process. plus, our science of today is ignorant of alchemy even though most of what we know has its roots in it. It is my belief that we are not a process of evolution but de-evolution if you will. Alchemy was practiced during egyptian times and before. We today are no where near as smart or as advanced as we were then. Because we ignore the truth and the truth is hidden from us by those that would continue to see us fight each other and destroy this planet (which we are at a rapid pace over the last 70 years.)

It is imperative that you see past all the hype, all the random descriptions of what to use and how to do the processes. It is also important to understand alchemy is not just a physical path but a spiritual one. If you do not accept this, you are failed from the start. As many before you have. This school you are attending, learn what you can but know that no school will openly teach you how to make the stone. hell they probably have not the faintest clue anyways. but there is knowledge to learn from them nonetheless.

some would argue that learn the process of alchemy on the body (spiritual) first. Look at the kabbalah for example to get you at least on the path. Read the BIBLE. believe it our not, the bible is not what it seems. It tells a story, the one of jesus christ and everything one is taught in school, yet it tells another story. the ones true adepts of the art see. genesis gives so much alone that its unreal. moses, noah too. yet its hard to see what the bible tells when our brains have been fed other stories all our lives from those that read word for word and take the stories literal. Although there is nothing wrong with that either Razz
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:07 am

Wow, that was some excellent advice.

I am big into prayer/mediation. So you gave me quite a bit to think about. I think I have been doing too much research, I think going out into nature would be the funner part of the process!

I am aware of the dual nature of Alchemy, the physical/spiritual. It is a beautiful thing. On that note, here's something I think you and everyone else would enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFBzR-sGr0

It's a lovely documentary from French television about a group of alchemists in the rural part of France. They get to meet the Alchemists, talk to them about philosophy and surrealism, and they even make medicine and produce Gold for the show (without revealing the ingredients). The show has some Chemists verify and check their work (which they unconvincingly deny is possible, of course Wink).

And thank you for providing me with books to research. What I am interested in is finding my own way for the answers I seek, kind suggestions and hints such as yours is what I was looking for concerning my first question. Thank you for your help. I just started rereading through Genesis and I see what you mean. I'm sure once I reread it again later (along with the other information you suggested) more information will pop up that has yet to be discovered.
-------------------------
As for "centric salt", if anyone has a book they can lead me to, or can point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated. I've been looking for the definition for a while. I just checked R.A.M.S. and I don't see it there, yet.
-------------------------

P.S.: Here is the author I was talking about. http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3Asteven%20alex%20school
Back to top Go down
View user profile
solarseeker



Number of posts : 366
Registration date : 2013-05-01

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 am

People think alchemy is very complex, the truth is that it is in fact very simple but the writings of the adepts take into account all possible meanings so you need to be able to observe multiple perspectives in order to understand the true meaning. When you can understand the true meaning of all of the terms (only possible with psychic abilities study AND practice) then the instructions to create the philosopher's stone are laid out very simple straight forward and practical.

Prima Materia translates to "prime matter" or the ideal substance to create the philosopher's stone from.

Green lion: green signifies a state of being unripe. The lion is king of the beasts,just as gold is king of the metals. So green lion translates literally to "unripe gold". For future reference lion,king,and sun are all usually symbols to signify gold. In this case the crude philosopher's stone is being called gold because like all other living things gold cannot be born from anything but its own species. In actuality there is no gold (chemical element Au) in the stone at this point, the stone can actually produce a green color however.

Gur: Is a rather mysterious substance the modern term for it is "star jelly". It shows up as blobs in the grass that look like snot in very early morning before the sun comes up,usually in places that were recently wet. If you have a dehumidifier you may have also found gur jelly in the water collector,especially if you run it outdoors at night during the waxing moon. Gur is a rare ultra fast way to make the stone, there are other methods than the gur method.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alkem5161



Male
Number of posts : 87
Age : 56
Registration date : 2012-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:15 pm

As far as gur I have found it  in a friends swimming pool in the spring
after it set all winter white blobs just floating  and I have caught it in rain water that I filtered out sealed in a jar and placed in the dark   It seems to have a life of its own . I haven't worked the path yet seems like I would be killing it but it is neat to watch in the glass jar as it moves on its own

That's all I can say about  it
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zotopek



Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2013-09-10

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:57 am

According to book 'Hyle&Cohyl' Gur is kind of white waxy substance which issues from the mines and earth. Gur is generated when 'Prima materia' enters from air into the ground and rocks and coagulate. So according to that Gur is 'secunda materia' a kind of parent of ores and minerals. 'Prima materia'->Gur->Mineral (ore).

Green Lion is the stage in development of Gur or mineral after the putrefaction (black) in mineral and vegetable kingdom.When we have the correct matter and work with it we get putrefaction (black) then green lion (green) regardless to matter in question (it can be mineral or vegetable)

You will not find definition for Centric salt it is the term used by Sendivogius for coagulated Prima materia (a white powder) he called it centric because it is in the 'center' of everything on earth including man so it is the 'great subject of your search' (says Philaletes)

As thepassamist stated you must beleve first than make experiment since this is not chemistry,the spirit must impregnate matter.When this start to happen the sequence of colors is important.This sequence appears in some things here and there
but it is hidden it slowly emerges as you study

this is my view about it

________________________

thepassamist said something about destruction of the world I think forces of darkness do not have access to centric salt so not being able (allowed?) to concentrate it they hijack it 'diluted' from living things (war,fear,poverty,opression,environment pollution) to support themselves and rule it with money
dont want to scare anyone but that's the way it is

Zotopek
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:44 pm

Thank you everyone! Good advice indeed, I am using all of your advice in my studies. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cocojambo



Number of posts : 237
Registration date : 2013-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:23 pm

I know what materials he works with and I can tell you that no reasonable person can deduce them from his books, especially when it comes to the menstruum, utterly ridiculous and not at all written in good faith. They're just there to make him money.

His theories on why it works are wild unfounded speculation as well. All he has is a working process, but from what I can tell, basically 0 understanding of what's happening.

Not to say the method doesn't work though. Just that you wasted a bunch of money. Would've been better spent on RAMS. From what I know, all the people that do know what he works with were told in one form or another. Your best bet is to just ask Steve.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alexbr



Number of posts : 393
Registration date : 2009-03-26

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:03 pm

HI cocojambo you say in your post
I know what materials he works with and I can tell you
ok what it is the materials he Steve works with ?so can say it ? to all us thanks

my best regards alexbr
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cocojambo



Number of posts : 237
Registration date : 2013-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:10 pm

Hello alexbr,

I very much wish I could say but I cannot as I was told to promise not to do so :/

But do not worry, as there are many ways to such materials, and I am sure of it.

P.S., I send you an email the other day.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:32 am

I don't think it's correct to say I have wasted my money. I haven't. It is not a waste of money to study and cross check different books. Positive commentary only, please. Diligence is never a waste of time.

I have already figured a lot out, and feel comfortable enough to begin experiments. I will be successful, because that's how I am. Anything can be done with hard work and study.

For the record, I also bought R.A.M.S. and several other works.

In my opinion, reading only one Alchemist's work is silly.

Remember: "Ora, LEGE, LEGE, LEGE, RELEGE, Labora et Invienes."

I don't think it is wise to say he did it for the money. Just saying that implies he is a scammer, which can't be totally true if he told you or others the ingredients.

And two, he allegedly makes gold. I don't see why he would need to scam people (unless for non-monetary reasons).

However, this is gossip, and I have no way of verifying the accusations laid against him--until I figure it out for myself. I don't like gossip and wish not to be apart of this, please, positive commentary only.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zotopek



Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2013-09-10

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:30 pm

Why would anyone buy a book on alchemy

this info is freely available
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:43 pm

Some certainly is,

but any in depth study will require minimal expenditure. For example, the internet, doesn't have the R.A.M.S. collection for free.

But if you purchase it you have 226 rare books at your finger tips to look over (for a cheap price that you actually can't find anywhere else). There is a lot of free information out there, you are right. I have learnt a lot from it.

However, it is not all there is.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cocojambo



Number of posts : 237
Registration date : 2013-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:28 pm

Zotopek wrote:
Why would anyone buy a book on alchemy

this info is freely available
Not all. But for this one, I'd agree. It describes 1 freaking process, and it's spread out over multiple books and ultimately costs nearly as much as RAMS Laughing

The reason he sells the book is so he has a cover for his Au selling.



>just gossip
YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY NETWORKING CONTACTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5wWA75skc

I KNOW MORE THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8RCQDDsMpU


I now know of a man who can produce production level quantities of philosophic mercury, pure and at will. He has a true understanding of alchemy. The rest of us are all just peasants wallowing in superstition and foolishness compared to him, replicating experiments like dumbfucks with no understanding.

What Steve has is a particular process. Not a pure philosophic mercury.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alexbr



Number of posts : 393
Registration date : 2009-03-26

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:46 am

hi all
about the work, video, and books of the new steven alex "school" also we can look this tread in our forum
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t608-does-this-look-like-it-s-the-real-thing

and see also about him matters use ?

him chanel you tube with all video an him web

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYWYnO6ixREhSTi_K6C7pbA

http://howtomakethephilosophersstone.com/

my best regards alexbr


Last edited by alexbr on Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zotopek



Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2013-09-10

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:35 am

My point was
reading freely available texts you arrive at common denominator
so you understand they are speaking of the same things
variety of the different processes is superficial
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:50 pm

Look, all I'm saying is that you may know your contacts, but I don't. I get your point that you don't think his books are worth while, so, honestly, thanks for the heads up.

Beyond that, there is no way I can verify anything else until I run through the experiments. This however, is far from a set-back for me. It has gotten my brain to make its own inquiries into the Natural Process. It has deepened my love for nature, so if he has an incomplete hypothesis, it's okay with me. I just don't want to talk about the guy, when he's not here to give his own input, ya know?

Also, being as I am the one reading his books in depth, what I can say is that he describes several processes and methods. One being the "Sendivogius Method" and the "Helvetius Method", among others.

I am also reading Fulcanelli's Mystery of the Cathedrals. Which I find to be a rather enticing read.

And, if his process leads to gold production, then I'd reckon to say he has the Philosophical Mercury. There is only one way to make Gold, and that's Philosophical Mercury.

Unless you are using a different definition.
----------------

I also know of a man that can produce vast quantities of the Philosopher's Stone. He's patented the process and is about to tear the mining business down. He is a very nice gentleman. http://vimeo.com/90037448



Back to top Go down
View user profile
cocojambo



Number of posts : 237
Registration date : 2013-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:10 pm

Cool, I respect that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
solarseeker



Number of posts : 366
Registration date : 2013-05-01

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:50 pm

If his methods lead to gold production, what does his recipe say about fermenting the stone ?

Its the later steps of fermentation and making projection powder which have been my biggest hurdle.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zotopek



Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2013-09-10

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:44 am

tb2000 you said that man you know patented process do you know
patent number so we can look into it?
have you asked him to be your mentor maybe he can save you
some time (and money ;P
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tb2000



Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2014-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:49 am

Well, perhaps Cocojambo can speak more to the finer details about the success to his methods and stuff

Hopefully, I don't confuse you, you may be doing a totally different method.

But what do you mean by fermentation exactly? Have you separated the White Stone (Sol) and the Crystal Clear Liquid (Luna) from the Green Lion?

Like are you asking how he says to do THAT, or what to do AFTER?

If this isn't ringing a bell, it's probably because you are doing a different method. The author reads a lot of Michael Sendivogius. I think he draws a lot of inspiration from him and his book "The New Chemical Light."

And Zotopek, I don't know this guy. I only know of him. I did call him once, and I had a pleasant conversation with him though:)

I don't know of any patent numbers, I only know of the news I read online and stuff

Maybe one day he could teach me!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
solarseeker



Number of posts : 366
Registration date : 2013-05-01

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:02 am

Ya that guy doesn't use alchemy terms quite correctly. I have the white stone (also called: water which wets not the hands/incombustible oil/fixed body) albino In old alchemy texts luna means "silver" btw.
The crystal clear liquid doesn't have a specific name but one alchemist called it "river of life". I distill the first matter MUCH longer at a much higher heat, to get a red oil (also called:blood of the green lion),and a yellow spirit (also called:Mercury/vinegar most sharp)

So after these are combined, how do I get this white stone to combine with gold or silver to make it into projection powder?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cocojambo



Number of posts : 237
Registration date : 2013-01-09

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:23 pm

Um afaik the Blue Eagle guy does not work with the stone. That glass to sol thing is an improvement of milewskis beer bottle method, which turns the *monatomic elements are NOT to be discussed on this forum! au in glass to metallic. This method is definitely not a stone. Unless he's working with a stone, he hasn't shown it afaik.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alexbr



Number of posts : 393
Registration date : 2009-03-26

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:06 pm

Hi cocojambo

NOW as you hast said you well know the "school" of the steven alex

NOW about these you say in your post on the guy of steve "scholl"
What Steve has is a particular process. Not a pure philosophic mercury.
NOW is not a total pure philosophic mercury.Ok
but so in your opinion? something has got to be in alchemy elixir of long life?
is that the largest end use of its stone in metallic transmutation into gold? Therefore also if only part his process and his "stone phil"work ?
and if it stone arrived to transmutation some metal in gold ?
or are all a pure invention ?
and or are only a TOTAL LIES? and falsehoods? created and said for only
to sell him bookled and dvd ?

your opinion?

My best regard alexbr
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zosimo

avatar

Male
Number of posts : 383
Registration date : 2009-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 pm

It is very easy to understand once for all that our Steve simply sells books. If Bartlett wrote a wondefull book that's "real alchemy" Steve could write another one, less interesting but still tasty: "real bullshit".
C'mon.  Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Zosimo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms   

Back to top Go down
 
Some Confusion with Alchemical Terms
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Confusion on the Word of God and Troubling Dreams
» MARKETING TERMS
» Migraine with aura and mental confusion?
» Common Themes: Demons
» defects liability period

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Lost Academy :: Alchemy :: Practical Alchemy-
Jump to: