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PostSubject: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 pm

ok... another detailed question. What would be the popper type of bottle used for the cooking?

I heard a wine bottle but with what kind of stopper? arn't they usually rubber/plastic or metal?

the letter says a luted glass stopper.

can I see some pictures of what we should be looking for when we start our cooking. I'm more concerned with the "cap".

xoxo,
-val

PS: maybe we should just get glass stoppers like this one and then lute it with clay.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:46 pm

Hi Dreamnotez, (with respect)

The answer to your question is already contained in this site.
Please find it. 5 posts/day I'm sure that you have the time.
Don't take offence, I'm just saying it (as nicely as possible) so that somebody else doesn't have to. (without tact).
Also, you may find that if you ask questions that have already been answered, then the people that are searching diligently are too busy doing their own research to stop and help.
If you found us, you can find that with very little effort.

This one is a freeby to save your effort:
http://www.lost-academy.com/practical-alchemy-f1/proper-equipment-t8.htm

If you are going to respond with the fact that you have read that thread and your answer is not contained there.. then that's where your question belongs, not in a new thread.

I expect this thread will be removed. (Don't take offence to that either).

Best of luck in your journey Val.
Karitsis

PS. Regardless of the above, I like that bottle stopper.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:51 pm

Karitsis wrote:
Hi Dreamnotez, (with respect)

The answer to your question is already contained in this site.
Please find it. 5 posts/day I'm sure that you have the time.
Don't take offence, I'm just saying it (as nicely as possible) so that somebody else doesn't have to. (without tact).
Also, you may find that if you ask questions that have already been answered, then the people that are searching diligently are too busy doing their own research to stop and help.
If you found us, you can find that with very little effort.

This one is a freeby to save your effort:
http://www.lost-academy.com/practical-alchemy-f1/proper-equipment-t8.htm

If you are going to respond with the fact that you have read that thread and your answer is not contained there.. then that's where your question belongs, not in a new thread.

I expect this thread will be removed. (Don't take offence to that either).

Best of luck in your journey Val.
Karitsis

PS. Regardless of the above, I like that bottle stopper.

I have had a lot of time because i'm my own boss and wanted to make sure I had all the facts before starting the cooking today. just so you know- USUALLY when you start a sentence with "don't take offense" what you are about to say will probably be offensive. From now on i'll direct any further questions to Nick and he can answer me when he has the time for me.

Oh, and if you don't have anything nice to say maybe you shouldn't say anything at all so you don't hurt anybody else's feelings.

-val

ps: I hadn't seen that post for whatever reason and you could have just said- "this question has been answered here or look for this post to find your answer instead of being mean to me.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:27 pm

Hi Dreamnotez,

I am very sorry that I apologised in advance.
I am then sorry that I was insensitive, for "assuming" that you may be sensitive to this.
That I answered your question for you.
Took the time to find, cut and paste the link for you.
And advised you in accordance with previous instruction orginally from Nick.
Also.. I will follow your fair instruction not to say anything to you if I'm not confident that you will deem it to be "good to say".

Nick seems to be a busy person however, I am sure he will find time to deal with this thread.
We all appreciate Nicks input and I (for one) would like to assist him and you in answering questions which have already been answered by him, so that (1) he can have as much time answering questions that have not yet been answered and (2) you don't have to wait for Nick to be online to get your answer.

Best Wishes and please forgive me,
Karitsis


Last edited by Karitsis on Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:43 pm

Karitsis wrote:
Hi Dreamnotez,

I am very sorry that I apologised in advance.
I am then sorry that I was insensitive, for "assuming" that you may be sensitive to this.
That I answered your question for you.
Took the time to find, cut and paste the link for you.
And advised you in accordance with previous instruction orginally from Nick.
Also.. I will follow your fair instruction not to say anything to you if I'm not confident that you will deem it to be "good to say".

Nick seems to be a busy person however, I am sure he will find time to deal with this thread.
We all appreciate Nicks input and I (for one) would like to assist him in answering questions which have already been answered by him, so that (1) he can have as much time answering questions that have not yet been answered and (2) you don't have to wait for Nick to be online to get your answer.

Best Wishes and please forgive me,
Karitsis


look - i don't want to fight with you over stupid mistakes. I just didn't see the post that answered the question for me. you hurt my feeling by how you said things to me and made me feel really unwelcome. I mean was it REALLY necessary to say things like "you must have the time since you post 5 times a day" or say stuff is "really easy to find" as if I purposely ignored all the posts and just put my own. I have put significant amount of research and time into this just like everyone else and we all make mistakes. No one likes to be talked to like a child. Before posting I used the "search" tool to see if my question had been asked before and nothing had come up.

lets just make peace with this and let it go before we become enemies.

peace,

-val
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:18 pm

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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:31 pm

holistic wrote:
Hi Val,

here is what I plan on using: up until the 5th mult. http://www.indigo.com/glass/gphglass/volumetric-flask.html

after that http://quartzscientific.thomasnet.com/item/boiling-flasks/flat-bottom-flasks/311b042?&plpver=10&origin=advsrch&by=prod&filter=0

I hope this helps your search

thanx for your response. I checked out the links and those look like the best options. I'm going to take Karitsis advice and read the post he linked for me above so I can get all the details. I don't know how i missed such an important post but hey- thats life Smile

xoxo,

val
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:28 pm

Don't you think holistic that the neck is a little too long?
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:48 pm

I do belive that this topic is actually very important.


I use or rather used champagne bottles with washed and reused champagne cork-stopper.

I have started the process quite some time ago...

with different types of water and dead sea salt for trial and error ...

tap water
dehumidifier water (put outside)
dew
fresh rain water
fresh snow

and so far it went rather bad for me ...

The tap water bottle was treated with some ammonium nitrate as well because back then I assumed that the ammonium found in trace amounts in dew is important ... however it showed a differrent precipitant to any other bottles of mine and didnt dissolve anything ... (this is off topic tho)

the dehumidifier bottle really smelled awfully from cork ... bad cork or whatever ... again water didnt dissolve anything ...

and my most precious dew bottle from november leaked steam at 200F and was therefor lost as well...

... so a normal cork is really not recommended at all !!!

I still have the rain and snow water bottle going ... also each sealed with cork-stopper but I have a rather bad feeling about them ...

I already have some glas stoppers lying around like this one:




With spring coming closer I want to be set as well as possible with my equipment.


Therefor I would love for someone to clarify how to lute such a glass stopper with lutem.

egg white is clear ... plaster of Paris, lime plaster, or cement plaste isnt tho ... also in which amount you mix these 2 to make sure it withstands the rather high pressure at 200F.


Thanks in advance for any info.


Wilfried


Last edited by Wilfried on Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:40 pm

I am sorry to hear that Wilfried.I was waiting for your results some time now, i am very curios about the effects of snow and rain...
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:17 am

Quote :
Therefor I would love for someone to clarify how to lute such a glass stopper with lutem.

egg white is clear ... plaster of Paris, lime plaster, or cement plaste isnt tho ... also in which amount you mix these 2 to make sure it withstands the rather high pressure at 200F.

I was under the impression that to lute was a process involving clay. I could of sworn I read that recently but here Nick says its egg whites and plaster.

-val
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:14 am

So far as getting an air tight seal that can also withstand great pressure you may consider a champagne stopper such as the metrokane velvet champagne stopper retails at only $9 dollars here: http://www.customcurling.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Metrokane-Velvet-Champagne-Stopper

Most of these champagne stoppers are made from hard plastic which as far as i know is not off limits..unlike the rubber stoppers which the alkahest attacks and makes the dew smell stinky.

my hope is that someone who knows whether hard plastic is off limits for use as well will (kindly) let us know in reply to this post Wink

p.s. this category was a great idea and i was very happy to see it Razz
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:29 am

Ok the stopper we are looking for should be ideally either glass or out of quarz.

The term used for hermetically sealed is: autoclavable

Here in middle europe we have signs for autoclavable stoppers for up to 121°C water-steam pressure. That is enough for our 200°F sandbath. Looks like this:



A duran stopper certified for this looks like this:



However I have a hard time beliving simply putting that stopper on to eg. round bottom flask will keep it sealed at 200°F ...

at this page they offer a duran round bottom flask also certified with the

A121 sign. click here


Ideally you are looking for something like this which will work up to 140°C steam pressure.


click here
The problem is to find a flask with the right thread.


Last edited by Wilfried on Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:04 am

found something else:

Thermosetting plastic stopper, up to a steam pressure of +260°C:
wiki link

picture of it is here



Wilfried
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PostSubject: :)   Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:22 pm

Thanx everyone! you guys showed me stoppers I wouldn't have known existed Smile I thought ideally the glass stoppers would be best but I also had a hard time believing they would withstand high pressures without leaking steam unless they where somehow screwed on.

I love the glass stopper with the plastic- that one seems to be effective in keeping a tight seal.

I didn't think it mattered but where you store your dew is important too. I had originally kept it in a glass jar with a snap lid that was made of wood but it caused the dew to smell like the wood- and not in a good way... like mildew or something. I then placed plastic on top and then sealed it effectively without causing the dew to take on this odd smell.

I was originally going to use a rubber tight seal but everyone seems to agree that the alkahest will damage it somehow and even cause the alkahest to be contaminated in some way. Its best not to take such risks on on the first try Smile.

has there been a post set up yet on how to lute.. my research on the internet has only produced clay-like lute-ing. I'll search specifically plaster/egg luting to see if I can find more details for us folks trying to use glass stoppers.

xoxo,

-val

thanx again for helping me out with this.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:56 pm

Yes there has been a post on the lute I believe. Latheeb and I took a wine jug that is about 3 liters, and has a screw cap on it. We took and mixed plaster of paris (with 2 egg whites) to beyond the consistancy of pancake batter. It has to be a little thick to attach it to the top of the jug and make it air tight. The way we mixed it was by, putting a tablespoon of plaster into the egg whites until it was the right consitancy. Pretty simple process, then we let it stand for about an hour and then started our process.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:03 pm

Zulnic wrote:
Yes there has been a post on the lute I believe. Latheeb and I took a wine jug that is about 3 liters, and has a screw cap on it. We took and mixed plaster of paris (with 2 egg whites) to beyond the consistancy of pancake batter. It has to be a little thick to attach it to the top of the jug and make it air tight. The way we mixed it was by, putting a tablespoon of plaster into the egg whites until it was the right consitancy. Pretty simple process, then we let it stand for about an hour and then started our process.

Excellent! that really clears things up! Smile I am really confident I have all the information I needed thanx to all the helpful people here on the forum.

THANX!,

val
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:41 pm

I found this place that sells plastic screw caps and other plastic style corks if anyone's interested.

The Home Brewery Corks

Here are a few examples:

Plastic top with Tapered Cork


All Plastic Corks


Polyseal Screw Caps (I really liked these)


-val
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:41 pm

Check out Dental luting.



MO-1 king
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:06 pm

I see many post of ppl using normal shaped bottles..
It might be good to think about the following:
In normal bottles the liquid has a very small surface area and also that at every place in the bottle the dept of the liquid is even. How could the affect the process?
With a small surface area of liquid, less vapor will be released from your water pool in the bottle. I think we all know the importance of the water to ascend then condensing to descend back to the bottom. (see line #8 of Emerald Tablet)
In a round flask, you will have a much larger surface area allowing much more vapor to ascend making the process faster. And because the dept of the saltwater pool goes gradually from shallow on the sides to deeper in the middle, I think it could make water vaporize even faster, especially on the side where water is shallow.
I think the faster the water can vaporize, condense, and descend back to the bottom of the flask, the faster the process might be completed.

I ordered 2 flasks like this with glass stoppers and am expecting it to arrive anytime tomorrow.



I want to end my post with the text of the Emerald Tablet.
Meditate on this one ;-)

1. True, without error, certain and most true
2. That which is below is as that which is above, and that which is above is as that which is below, to perform the miracles of the one thing.
3. And as all things were from [the] one, by [means of] the meditation of [the] one, thus all things of the daughter from [the] one, by [means of] adaptation.
4. Its father is the sun, its mother[,]the moon, the wind carried it in its belly, its nurse is the earth.
5. The father of all the initiates of the whole world is here.
6. Its power is integrating if it be turned into earth.
7. Separate the earth from the fire, the fine from the dense, delicately, by [means of/to] the great [together] with capacity.
8. It ascends by [means of] earth into heaven and again it descends into the earth, and retakes the power of the superior[s] and of the inferior[s].
9. Thus[,] you have the glory of the whole world.
10. Therefore[,] may it drive-out by [means of] you of all the obscurity.
11. This is the whole of the strength of the strong force, because it overcomes all fine things, and penetrates all the complete.
12. Thus[,] the world has been created.
13. Hence they were wonderful adaptations, of which this is the manner.
14. Therefore[,] I am Hermes the Thrice Great, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world.
15. What I have said concerning the operation of the Sun has been completed.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:39 pm

8. It ascends by [means of] earth into heaven and again it descends into the earth, and retakes the power of the superior[s] and of the inferior[s].


Is it just me, or does this remind you of rain? If it is rain, then maybe the process could actually be done with rain. It describes the sun and moon

4. Its father is the sun, its mother[,]the moon, the wind carried it in its belly, its nurse is the earth.


Hence, the sun and moon and the wind that carries it. All described as part of the process of dew. I'm curious to see what the others that are working with rain water find out.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 pm

I think you may be mistaken on the surface area. If you have a 500 or a 1000ml flask and you
fill it 2/3 to to half full with your solution Then you really don't have much surface area left
If you want to use a round bottom boiling flask for this process. Take the two that you have
and get you a male to male straight adapter. Put your solution in one and allow the one on
top to be your condensation surface area. this will give you a massive surface area.
To do this you would have to use lockson the two ground joints.

I have quite a few of these flasks in my lab. I use them for my distillation trains. You may
also want to check out a device called a soxhlet extractor. It's a pretty cool condensation
apparatus.

The old Alkemists didn't have all the fancy glassware that we have today but they still
did amazing things. Again I really think the simple way is probably the best.

I am using a 750 ml bottle and am getting massive circulation and condensation in the
top part of the bottle.

Give your system a try and let us know how it works.



MO-1 king


*


Last edited by magnum.opus1 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:02 am

Jairo where did you ordered these flasks?
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:33 am

dejan07 wrote:
Jairo where did you ordered these flasks?

www.carlroth.com
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PostSubject: Re: About the Bottles   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:22 am

I have a straight connector for connecting 2 flasks together for circulating water during digestions, and it looks pretty cool when you have one flask inverted over the top of the other.

But we must remember that too much air space could also be counter-productive because the pressure will not be high enough.

The 2nd letter from the Cappucine monk says to fill the bottle half full when digesting the salt water to make the Alkahest, and since he described everything with so much detail, he probably did the process and succeeded. Just so happens that I actually knew by instinct to have my bottle filled halfway; because while collecting small amounts of dew each day, I eventually decided to just stop adding more dew and to start the digestion process with the bottle only half full, even though I say in the book to fill it 2/3.

In my youtube video you will notice the photo of my morning dew bottle shows it only filled halfway with dew.
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