GW Method 3 - are the red crystals fluorescent?

In step three of GW Method 3, the solution is boiled down until it's supersaturated (a skin begins forming on its surface). Then the solution is chilled in the refrigerator so "beautiful bright red and dark red transparent crystals will grow".

Are these red crystals fluorescent? If so, what color do they fluoresce?

In other words, if these red crystals were exposed, in a dark room, to the light from a standard "purple-colored" black light - the type used to light up "day glow" posters - would the red crystals "light up"? If so, what color would they light up?


I consider this to be an interesting question because if these crystals do "light up" in an easily-recognizable way (in a color that is distinct from any of the other colors that putrefied GW fluoresces / lights up), then it might be possible to cheaply cobble together a device that employs that fluorescence to detect the presence of the red crystal compound at any step during GW Method 3.


Here's how such a device could be used...

It is reasonable to assume that at some stage in GW Method 3, the chemical compound that will later be coalesced into the red crystals is formed. Subsequent steps would have the purpose of concentrating that compound and separating it from the rest of the "goop". In the following discussion, I will call this compound the "red compound".

By monitoring each step of GW Method 3 with our detector device, we could watch and see when the fluorescence appears. This would tell us when the red compound is actually formed.

Once we knew when the fluorescence is *supposed* to appear, we could then monitor our progress, knowing that if the fluorescence does NOT appear at the expected time, then something is wrong and we can discontinue that experiment and stop wasting time with that batch. Perhaps that batch of GW was "defective", due to medications or diet variations that changed the chemistry of the GW enough to prevent the red compound from being formed.

The fluorescence could also be used to detect missteps that cause the process to fail. If, for example, your material shows the fluorescence, and then after you perform the next step in the process, the fluorescence is gone, you can conclude that something went wrong with that step.

The fluorescence could also be used to optimize the process with the intention of maximizing the yield of the red crystals.

If, for example, the fluorescence appeared during putrefaction, then the fluorescence could be measured every couple of days as putrefaction proceeded, and the putrefaction halted at the point of maximum fluorescence, in order to maximize the yield of red crystals in step #3.

Similarly, if the fluorescence appeared during the gentle calcination, the calcination temperature, access to air, etc, could be adjusted in order to maximize the fluorescence...


I am, of course, making quite a few assumptions here, but if the red compound fluoresces in an easily-recognizable way, it could provide a powerful tool to help those of us who are struggling with GW Method Three.

Depending on the nature of this fluorescence, a tool to measure it could be as simple as an LED, a photo-transistor, and a few colored filters. Or, it might require a simple spectrometer to be assembled from some cardboard and an old CD. We will just have to see how much precision and sensitivity is necessary.


So, Nick (or anybody else) who has successfully produced the bright red and dark red transparent crystals discussed in step 3 of GW Method #3, would you be willing to shine a black light on these crystals and see if they fluoresce? If they do, could you describe, as precisely as possible, the exact color that they fluoresce?

Note that more precision will probably be necessary, because putrefied GW already contains many fluorescent compounds. So, it will probably be necessary to look for fluorescence at a certain wavelength (a certain color) in order to unambiguously detect the red compound.

Fortunately, I have access to a commercial UV-VIS Spectrometer and a Spectrofluorometer which I can use to determine the exact excitation and fluorescence wavelengths of the red compound.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to produce any red crystals that produce the red glass-like material when cooked with gold, as described in step #4 of GW Method Three. If anybody *does* have these crystals, and would be willing to send me a small sample for analysis, I will perform the spectrum scans, post the results on this forum, and then return the sample.

A sample about the size of a grain of table salt / granulated sugar should be sufficient. I would dissolve it in 3cc of an appropriate solvent (probably ammonia solution), perform the scans, evaporate the solvent to recover the red crystal, and then send it back.


Any takers?

Comments?

- Ramen

This is a good line of thinking as it would always be nice to have new ways of helping our process along and find out if we are wasting our time or if we actually have what we are after. But, such a process might or might not work because you have to remember that we are not dealing with chemistry, we are most likely dealing with some kind of ethereal energy that gets locked up in chemistry. The end product that we want is not any specific chemical molecule but an energy. In the end this energy might be locked up in a specific molecule or grouping of molecules but I suspect that it changes hands throughout the process.

As Nick has said what we are doing in these processes it to concentrate a maximum amount of this stange energy into a minimum amount of matter. And so I say again that *I think* this energy changes hand through the various stages of any of these processes that we might work out. So looking for a certain chemical or the way it flouresces might not help us. Then again in the GW process I would bet that certain chemical composition is important, my only point is to suggest that it may not be as linear as you are suggesting, one of the things that has been able to keep it secret for so long is that it is elusive, even in our day of high analysis.

I am not meaning to shoot your idea down, I am sure some types of scientific analysis will be helpful just remember there will be some curveballs.

bluefloor,

Well said! Two people performing the same process may likely have VERY different out comes. The GW I'm working with is moving alone well. So far the crystals seem to be getting more refined... not worth taking any more photos yet. I wonder how kirk and his crystals are coming along? If you read this kirk could you give us an up date?
God bless all!

Hi guys,

Nice to hear voices, "they're not just in my head!", Has everyone just given up or feel left behind? Its odd, I sense it's a bit of BS over shadowing the forum.

Anyhow... Kevin, I haven't taken my crystals any further yet. Have been waiting to create some more spirit but will not do this work inside as too aromatic and protested by thy dearest! And here, we are having so much rain that work outside has been impossible. As well, no chance for dew harvest.

I should get myself a black light and test my samples! But if anything is florescent, could this point towards phosphorus?


And... Nick.
where is u?

Kirk,

My wife has exiled my lab to the shed. I assembled a 7' x 7' plastic shed.

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It's about 100' from the house and keeps everything dry. my wife couldn't be happier...and when the little wife is happy...I'm happy

As for Nick I think he is keeping himself very busy. Remember he has many projects and personal obligations going on at once. He's trying to do it all himself. I'm sure soon he will pop-up with much to say.
God bless!

Woo hoo go Kevin! That looks awesome. It is actually alot of work mixing our work with the real world.

Well I finally got a job so maybe now I can rejoin the real world.

congrates Bluefloor!

and Kevin, I'm jealous!!