What you are working on and the issues

Basically I would like to know what processes you are all working on and why they are not working. What equipment, timeframe etc.

I will post some pics and comments later.

About 1 year ago I collected dew using a dehumidifier. I combined it with organic salt that had been sitting on the shelf for about 5 years. I had it in BM for several months but never achieved and color changes. The whole mess was in a wine bottle with a synthetic cork. I was really eager to get started and had no money.

This year I have some glassware and some properly collected dew. I will get some fresh sea salt as well. There is something really neat about a round bottom flask with a 24/40 ground glass stopper. Any advice for lute? I am thinking of picking up some plaster of Paris and mixing in some eggwhite. Is there something better to use these days?

Last Year's Attempt:

ElliotNoir wrote:

Basically I would like to know what processes you are all working on and why they are not working. What equipment, timeframe etc.

Very interesting question ElliotNoir, i like it.

I have tried the Dew+Sea Salt method and never managed to putrefy the salt with Dew. I also know that ∴N.D.C∴ didn't got the putrefaction either (he openly admitted this) and he moved to GW.

So the really good question you are asking why isn't working?

When we look at the properties of the Sea Salt in general it has a drying and preserving quality. Meat is salted with salt to prevent putrefaction, not to cause it. Soil that contains Sea salt bears no fruit because the seed cann't putrefy in it.

Some Alchemist like Patrick Riviere thought that this Sea Salt cann't bet vulgar Sea Salt because the Capuccine monk wrote that this Salt was shiped with spanish ships from the island of St.Uby. He believed that this island was imaginary place and a hint at the source of this salt.

Later, to my big surprise i found this famous island and it is a real place.

Invisible Doctor, I know the man in that photo.

Hey Everyone,

According to this thread:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?590-Heated-Debate-Over-the-Dew-Salt-Method-%28philowar%29/page3

True dsafdsaf Says: (Real nickname is True P-uffer. Apparently P-uffer is a bad word here and the system is replacing it in my post)

Quote :

I don't know much about Patrick River but i found out that on the original Actum Leyden letter from British Library there are two important marginal notes on the second page of the document. The first uses symbols and translates either as "This salt is earth" or "This salt is antimony". The second note also uses symbols (and I think is the more important of the two) which when translated reads "This dew is Nitre".

Which in correspondance with kerking and Patrick River could be the case.

Green Lion Responds:

Quote :

The notes were written by Sigismund Bacstrom.
He had interpreted a lot of texts with the focus on antimony.
But this is not the same path that Patrick Rivière's path.
And even if I like Bacstrom, he had seen the antimony where there is no antimony in certain texts.

There seems to be more interest in using either dew or salt, but not both together. Antimony is toxic. I am not experienced enough to bring it into my home!

I just had an interesting thought.. Since salt turns into hydrochloric acid and nitre can turn into nitric, the two would combine to form aqua regia. If this were done in a flask, (Think about the Leyden method but with less initial moisture) it would indeed dissolve gold, but that's acid dude! Stay away from drinking that!

Quote :

I have tried the Dew+Sea Salt method and never managed to putrefy the salt with Dew.

Can you please elaborate on your method / setup? If you wouldn't mind, the questions I'd like to ask are what kind of flask did you use? How did you harvest the dew? What kind of salt did you use?

To be clear, I am talking about vulgar / common sea salt. I think in the future I will refer to it by it's chemical name, Sodium Chloride. I do not wish to use any ambiguity in regards to this particular method!

This is the setup that i used at the beginning (the pictures were taken much later):





Two times my flask exploded cause of too much internal pressure. To prevent this later i used flask with attached bridge:






Part of the Dew would end up in the receiving flask and then i poured it back in the flask by leaning it.

I was using Fleur De Sel Sea Salt.



The first time i collected the dew with cloth, the second with dehumidifier and the the third with ice bags.

Invisible Doctor wrote:

I just had an interesting thought.. Since salt turns into hydrochloric acid and nitre can turn into nitric, the two would combine to form aqua regia. If this were done in a flask, (Think about the Leyden method but with less initial moisture) it would indeed dissolve gold, but that's acid dude! Stay away from drinking that![/b]

The above experiment that i carried earlier this year was actually a Nitre+Sea Salt dissolved in dew.

This is KaliumNitrat (potasium nitrate), KNO3 or simply Nitre



Sea and Nitre together



Mixed with dew in proportion 2 parts Sea salt to 1 part Nitre



Grounding the salts together:



The two salts are dissolved in Dew:



Heating the Dew so that it can dissolve more:



The two salts in solution can never form the Aqua Regia unless you separate their Spirits from their bodies so don't you worry about that.

Sea Salt that i was using Fleur de Sel was only about 50% Sodium Chloride because this salt was crystalized directly from sea water and dried in the Sun, This is the highest quality salt there is.

Hey T.P. ,

Thanks for sharing your photos! I do have a few more questions about your attempts. It looks like you're using a lamp as a heat source, what exactly is that and how did you lute your flask?

I notice a distillation arm in one of the pics. Did you do this to prevent over-pressurization? (I'm assuming so since you mentioned leaning it to pour the distillate back into the flask). If this is the case you are not "circulating" the moisture in the flask (Refluxing). I think you would want to use a reflux condenser instead of a distillation arm: http://www.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/chem211lab/Orgo_Lab_Manual/Appendix/Techniques/Reflux/reflux%20apparatus.jpg . It's basically a way to extend the length of the flask's neck and cool it down so it drips back into the mixture.

If you don't exceed the temps the flasks should hold. What temperature is that heating unit using? Is there any sand between heat source and flask to provide even heating?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate your pictures very much! One more question, was your attempt using "ice bag" dew done with the distillation arm?

Thanks,

- i.D

Hi again i.D,

In those pictures i was using tea candle light inside an incense burner as a heat source. It was pain in the a** to manage the heat with it because it gone out every 4-6 hours and the temp was not constant.

Later instead of a candle i used a Glass bulb as a heating source with much better results. To prevent the light to spoil the work the flask must be protected by tin foil.

Back then i didn't had a reflux condenser so i was forced to improvise but now i have.

Sand is not good idea to use for such mild temperatures usually i make use of oil bath just like Bain Marie but instead of water i add cooking oil because there is no need to replace the evaporating water like you are forced to do with B.M.

Yes, my ice bag dew was done with destillation flask.

The next thing we should do now is to examine the clues the Author of that famous letter left us concerning the matters of the work. First he starts with the salt and gives us a hint about the origin of this salt and from where it came from.

In Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages version we read St. Uber:



and in RAMs Digital POTPOURRI1 it's called St.Huber:



In his book Patrick Riviere gives us the French translation of the letter and he calls this island St.Uby:



Later he explains that this island is only a imaginary place and a cover name for Stibium (Antimony).

It's interesting that all of the Authors who wrote about this island knew nothing about it and never learned the truth because they misspelled it 's real name! At last however i found out the truth.

This island was not actually an island but a maritime port formerly called in English St.Ubes and in French St.Yves in the district of Lisbon (formerly included in the province of Estremadura) Portugal.
Today the City in which this port still exist is located is called Setubal.
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SCY_SHA/SETUBAL_formerly_called_in_Engl.html

This port in 17th and 18th was wordly renown for the best qualitty Sea Salt in Europe, there are even books written about this place.
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SCY_SHA/SETUBAL_formerly_called_in_Engl.html

Just type Setubal salt or St.Ubes salt in Google and see how much information there is about this place. I'm surprised that nobody in alchemical circles except myself ever discovered it.

TP—

Thanks for sticking with the task at hand…I had a big blow out in the lab last night and made me rethink everything about safety and about spitting venom...and what comes around…

This related to your previous post:

What I did was buy one of those cheap PIDs from ebay for around $30…they are easy to wire-up and make temp control a snap. It uses fuzzy logic, so it can “learn” how to control the temp for your specific set-up to the degree. If you use a pt100 tip you can have accuracy to the 0.1 degree but that really isn’t needed. I have regulated all different types of set-ups and after learning the specific system, they do a great job and are very dependable.



I wired a household plug receptacle to the back, so I can easily plug in any hot plate, lamp, “whatever” to be regulated precisely with no effort. Something to check out…and yes that is a box I used for a container...



Here is a link for anyone interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-Temperature-control-Controller-K-probe-thermocouple-/320968830853?#ht_5277wt_938

Wow, this is great device i had no idea about! It seems I was living under a rock.

Ok, let's go back and finish the study on Sea Salt.

Now after i provided undeniable proof that salt from St.Ubes was truly only vulgar Sea Salt but of superior quality we should take a look which kind the Author of the letter had in my mind.

The salt that was shipped to Holland (where the City of Leyden is situated) was actually Flor de Sal.

Flor de Sal is a hand-harvested sea salt collected by workers who scrape only the top layer of salt before it sinks to the bottom of large salt pans.



I have used Fleur de Sel instead from Souther France in my last experiment but i learned from cooking experts that Flor de Sal from Portugal is more fiery than the French due to hotter climate and more Sun's fire captured in that beautiful salt.

The only question that is left to answer is why nobody managed to putrefy the sea salt and enter the black stage?

I think the answer lies in the preparation of salt before it is to be joined with dew. If we compare the method outlined in Secret Teachings of All Ages with the method in POTPOURRI1 there is a crucial difference!

Method from Secret Teachings of All Ages



Method from POTPOURRI1



See the crucial difference?

In the first version the Author states you should only dry the salt in a warm stove but in a second version it tells you that you MUST calcine the the salt with Sun Rays and then to dry it in a warm stove.

What does it mean to calcine it with Sun Rays? Does it mean you should only dry it in the Sunlight? No, i don't think so!

I believe it means you should infuse it with Sun's fiery rays through a powerfull lense like this:



I also believe that such calcination will change chemical composition of the sea salt and allow it to putrefy!

Now few words about collecting dew... not to be too wordy.

Capuccine monk had layed special importance on catching the dew when the Moon is at it's strongest otherwise the Dew wil not be strong enough.

Now my intuition tells me that if our Salt is prepared by infusing the Sun's fire into sea salt what will happen when we concetrate the light of the full Moon in our Dew using such a powerfull lense?
This opens a really interesting question what is the true nature of Lunar Rays?

We know that the Rays of the Sun are of Hot and Dry nature but are the Rays of the Moon of Wet and Cold nature?

John French has some very interesting notes about this:



If a sponge is able to absorb the Lunar Rays without going up in flames then we can correctly conclude that the Rays of the Moon are Wet and Cold which will enable us to collect ridiculous ammounts of high quality Dew by using such lense.

Is this the final and correct intepretration of that famous letter? We will see!

T.P. wrote:

I have tried the Dew+Sea Salt method and never managed to putrefy the salt with Dew. I also know that ∴N.D.C∴ didn't got the putrefaction either (he openly admitted this) and he moved to GW.

So let me get this straight... Nick never putrefied dew?... but i thought he made the stone with dew, dissolved the gold in dew water + salt? the dew water was his pride and joy last time i checked

SunWukong wrote:

So let me get this straight... Nick never putrefied dew?... but i thought he made the stone with dew, dissolved the gold in dew water + salt? the dew water was his pride and joy last time i checked

It seems you didn't checked very often, didn't you?

If you search for the thread IMPORTANT UPDATES TO THE DEW PROCESS on page 5 ∴N.D.C∴ wrote:

But it does seem like something is very different about the process because maybe something was intentionally left out. It makes no sense how the water could turn black, then deposit a gray salt all around the sides of the flask, and then become black again when you put it back in the water bath. Then as you repeat the process, the water is supposed to gradually become clear, and the salt will become white. But that is simply impossible. The dew never becomes black, and the salt never coats the sides of the flask and drys up during the sand bath, and the precipitant only gets darker, not whiter.

We know that when we collect the smoke from burning tartar, we obtain an Alkahest that dissolves gold. And we know from the Reusenstein process that if you smoke the dew first, then you can make the Alkahest in only 24 hours. And we know that if you heat potassium carbonate with lime and collect the white fumes in alcohol in the receiver flask, then burn away the alcohol, you are left with an Alkahest that is clear and incombustible.

So it would seem the only way the proper Alkahest can be made is with the help of some chemicals that come from burning wood or potash, or tartar, all of which would essentially be producing the same thing, but wood and tartar produce a lot of smoke filled with other things, and potash releases something very specific and clean.

It's very strange how clearly everything is written in the 2nd Cappucine monk letter, and yet obviously something has been left out and there is more in the flask than just salt and dew. None of us have been able to produce the Crows Head or gray salt precipitant that becomes whiter with each multiplication of the Alkahest.

So something is obviously missing here, and I think it must be the addition of something that will slowly "burn" during the first digestion in the B.M water bath. Maybe if we add tartar, it will blacken the water, then it will coagulate on the sides of the flask and coat it completely with a gray salt when we do the sand bath digestion because of the high temperature.

The link to the thread:
http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t69p60-important-updates-to-the-dew-process

In his video the Busy Alchemist there are few pictures from the Dew Path and it shows no signs of putrefaction.

I am only pointing the facts here, nothing else.

ok look.... that post is not what im confused about.... what confuses me is nick had PICTURES of gold dissolved in dew water... it may have not been here, it may have been on his old site... one of his first sites.... I believe it was this website specifically http://www.philosophicalmercury.page.tl/

anyways I could have sworn he made it via dew process... i checked more often than you think... i remember him saying he thought smoking the dew would help in the process... but I thought he was just trying to help you guys do it faster.. not because he had the problem

AND! I actually appreciate you posting this post because from what it looks like Nick was having the exact same problems I was having with my processes.. with one vital difference....

I actually had my gold turn black...then turn white...then float on top of the water in a white oil... some stayed at the bottom...while some sublimed on top of my flask... using philosophical dew of course

BUT... just like nick said "maybe something was intentionally left out"

because im certain I didn't have the white stone, based on the descriptions on what is suppose to happen

SunWukong wrote:

So let me get this straight... Nick never putrefied dew?... but i thought he made the stone with dew, dissolved the gold in dew water + salt? the dew water was his pride and joy last time i checked

Of course he putrefied dew. I don't know exacty what TP is refering to (maybe you will tell us TP?) but I do know that most people following this particular process were not having success and if I remember Nick's fix for this was to putrefy the dew before adding the salt. There are posts on this but they are very old and I am having a hard time finding them. I will keep looking.

∴N.D.C∴ in his own words wrote:

It's very strange how clearly everything is written in the 2nd Cappucine monk letter, and yet obviously something has been left out and there is more in the flask than just salt and dew. None of us have been able to produce the Crows Head or gray salt precipitant that becomes whiter with each multiplication of the Alkahest.

Crows Head stands for putrefaction in Alchemy.



∴N.D.C∴ admitted openly that nobody including him wasn't able to putrefy Dew+Salt mixture. Yes, you can putrefy the Dew alone but not in conjuction with the salt which is exactly what the Author of that letter demands in the first step.

Shortly after ∴N.D.C∴ posted this he moved to GW methods and abandoned the Dew+Salt Path.

I have taken off the restriction of the word "Puffer" since he is with us and since we like to keep a nice peacful forum nobody is going to be slinging out the word puffer in a deragotory fashion. And also hopefully nobody will be puffing, only learning and teaching.

anyway,

TruePuffer I like that pic and many of the ond alchemy drawings. Alot of cool art in there.

I pretty much agree with Puffer in the course of how events went. I don't think Nick ever claimed success in the dew+salt path. We would have to check old posts to know for sure I guess, but I do think he claimed success with dew in other paths. This is actually good discussion to get cleared up perhaps in another thread of its own because it does seem Nick claimed success in dew paths but the towards the end said

∴NDC∴ wrote:

I also discoverd morning dew has nothing to do with actual dew. Yes you can make a "tincture" of gold that way but it doesn't have the power most people assume they can so easily handle.

Very confusing that he praised dew so much and even claimed success as far as I know but then doubted it at the end.

One of the reasons why i chose the name True Puffer is to take the pleasure from people who called me a Puffer in the past.

Nick's study and work was concetrated almost exclusively on RAM's Digital collection of books and recipes. In one of his post ∴N.D.C∴ stated:

Then you had the P.O.N. courses which could teach you a wealth of alchemy knowledge.Then of course, the almighty RAMS which contained rare alchemy manuscripts from around the world, some of which had never been published or even copied a single time, and most never translated to English before, and that's why the info in the RAMS library is so good, filled with one jewel after another.

The RAMs collection of books and manuscripts are coming from a private collection of Rosicrucian initiate Dr. Sigismund Bacstrom and this fact is known but what was unknown to ∴N.D.C∴ most of R+C MS that are in RAM's are incomplete reproductions.

I will give you one example (but there are many others).

If you read the short treatise called Chemical Moonshine contained in RAMs COMPENDIUM folder...





and compare it to original Bacstrom version you will notice that great part of the instruction is simply missing.





Here is the original version of Chemical Moonshine:
http://www.mediafire.com/?owjpqqjy8y0kj3a

∴N.D.C∴ never found the original manuscripts and this is one the reasons why he wasn't able to succeed and finish the Great Work by following those incomplete RAMs recipes.

The other important reason is that ∴N.D.C∴ didn't knew much about secret R+C Order of which Dr. Sigismund Bacstrom was a member.

Thanks for the info Puffer.

And to update, after reading through a few posts around the one the Puffer posted, it does seem that Nick was claiming to dissolve gold from his dew+salt path and taking the result as medicine. Anyone interested including me can go back and read and then post conclusive ones here. Mostly for right this minute I have to move on though because I have some other stuff to work on.

SunWukong wrote:

I actually had my gold turn black...then turn white...then float on top of the water in a white oil... some stayed at the bottom...while some sublimed on top of my flask... using philosophical dew of course

BUT... just like nick said "maybe something was intentionally left out"

because im certain I didn't have the white stone, based on the descriptions on what is suppose to happen

Why would you be expecting the white stone if you were using gold?

So nobody got this yet? salt turning black in philosophical dew? (These pictures are from today)

The camera didn't focus If these pictures are unsatisfactory for you then I will take some more.... but your going to have to tell me quick because this salt is going to begin to turn white

bluefloor wrote:

SunWukong wrote:

I actually had my gold turn black...then turn white...then float on top of the water in a white oil... some stayed at the bottom...while some sublimed on top of my flask... using philosophical dew of course

BUT... just like nick said "maybe something was intentionally left out"

because im certain I didn't have the white stone, based on the descriptions on what is suppose to happen

Why would you be expecting the white stone if you were using gold?

because mr.bluefloor... you get the white stone, before you get the red stone.... because the white stone turns red with enough decoction (spellcheck) at least thats what ive read a thousand times