Any heating apparatus suggestion ?

Nice lab oven for under $200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOEFER-RED-ROLLER-II-HYBRIDIZATION-OVEN-(ITEM-%23-1380)_W0QQitemZ130250368667QQcmdZViewItem

Do you think that if you put the flask inside this oven you´ll get the same results as in the baneo marie / sand ?
Don´t you think that in the Oven the heat comes from all sides, and in the sand bath and baneo marie´s it comes from the bottom, making convection inside the flask to occur?

I don´t know just that pop out from my mind.

Nice oven though, we could cook some pork in there just kidding ha!

The reason the sand bath was chosen was because back then this was the easiest and most effective method for evenly heating a flask, it also held heat long after the source burned out giving you plenty of time to restore the heat source.

Hi there

Just a thought.

How about the sand bath replacing the balneo mary process ?
No water projection risk.

I thought the Baneo MArie could replace the sand bath, because with marie you can get from 100 up to the boiling point of water ( around 100 Celcius 220 F ), Sand BAths are used normally when you want even higher temperatures up to the thousand degrees. From the póint of view of preserving energy the sand bath takes much more energy, but like it was said , hot sand can stay hot longer...

I wonder how you guys are taking the temperature of the solution, do you think a infrared thermometer
will do the job?

Here is a 9 quart cooler/heater that can be used for the water bath as well as 65F storage. It has a car plug for it but you can buy an adapter to convert to 110v.
25F to 150F.
Dimensions:
Interior: 12" (L) x 7 3/4" (W) x 6 1/4" (H)
Exterior: 14 1/2" (L) x 10 1/4" (W) x 11" (H)

$45 shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160310227096



As far as the sand bath, I think an digital crock pot is the cheapest alternative we will find. They run $45-$120 a piece.;

Dimensions: 16.25 x 9.75 x 16.25-in

http://www.bettycrockerstore.com/p-643939-2740%202681%204294967264-Small-Appliances-Slow-Cookers_Hamilton-Beach-Programmable-Slow-Cooker-5-qt.aspx?back=c-2740%2B2740+2681+4294967264-Small-Appliances-Slow-Cookers.aspx



http://www.sourcingmap.com/110220v-12v-power-adapter-converter-car-charger-p-27467.html $5-$10

Hello Goatz,

Your mini car fridge idea is reaaly good, As for the crock pan , I still think it will consume a lot plus you need tha bulky variac. to get the right temp.

what you think about these lab hotplates here:

http://www.barnsteadthermolyne.com/featured_detail.cfm?num=6

they can get from 5 F up to a thousand + , I don´t know the price of this,
but I think it expends less wattage and can do both jobs.

You can control de temp very accurately, and the stirrer function we leave off.

cheers

Those hot plates look like a good idea, BUT they are pricey.

Cimarec Digital Hot Plates - $225.00 for the small one from Lab Depot.

The good thing would be that you could use it for both operations, simply changing the temp settings to take it up to 200 after the 40 days, then turning the temp back down after the 2 weeks, etc. (if Im reading the information right. The book says that once the stone forms, within 2 days put it back in Balneo Mary I believe. If thats the case then this should work for both operations)

OR you could get 2 and that way would be able to set the temps exactly, so it sounds like a really great idea if you can afford it.

FYI Lab depot is not quick, their timeframe for hot plates is almost (and in my case over) two months to get it. I ordered a cheaper one from ebay in the interim but its used and somewhat tricky to use.

Hello,
I think we are getting into the right thing now.


My conclusion so far is:

For the Baneo MAry
The use of the mini fridge proposed earlier is not ok because my reserch says once you put the flask inside
and close the door and make it go hot, you can´t control the temperature, and they all go beyond the 130-4- degrres, you can´t just control it.

For the Sand BAth.
Using the Crock Pot or Heating pans will be tricky to control , most of them have a large resistance and
will consume up to a 1000 Watts, so you´ll need to buy a big Variac to control them .. so I think is
not the right thing also.


I called a lab distributor today in Sao Paulo he has both the "Hot Plate" and the "Heating Mantle"

The diference being that the Hot plate is like a small Oven it´s made to put a Erlenmeyer type of Flask On
They are expensive If you get one with strring and digital temperature control. But there are simpler ones.
the Hot plates with just a embeded variac is Ok for this Project. But I also found the "Heating Mantle"
Wich is the equivalent to the Hot Plate just that it was made to fit the Baloom type of flask. thence it has a concave surface. The Heating mantle is much cheaper than the all the rest, for you need less energy to heat the ballom flask!

Here in Brazil a heating mantle capable of holding a 1000ml Flask consumes at the maximum of 300 Watts when you want to go to 350 degrees celcius, wich is a lot. So you´ll expend much less than that on 200F.

Plus Baloon type flasks are more suited to endure higher temperatures.

So conclusion being so far that we should go for a heating mantle with temperature control ,
a baloom flask and a infrared thermometer.

A heating MAntle here costs around US$120,00

Then you´ll need just that for the whole process, plus you` ll save a lot of energy than a crock pan
or electric oven.

And a regular 1200KVA computer No break to deal with electric shortagge along the 6 month process.

So this is my best conclusion so far.





[img][/img]

Here you have one in Ebay. on the same 120 dollar range

http://cgi.ebay.com/500-ml-heating-mantle-lab-equipment-electrothermal_W0QQitemZ140299945935QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item140299945935&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

The slow cooker idea will work well, and here is why. The cooker has a thermostatic control so when it reaches its temperature it will shut off saving electricity and with it full of sand it won't have to reheat of often, if the temp is set to 190F even with a 5% variance it will reach a maximum of 200F, using a digital thermometer I will check for varying temperatures to ensure that I remain within the temperature range I desire. The exact 200F temperature is relative, using fire and a metal container with sand do you really think Leyden was able to maintain the temperature at exactly 200F? As far as the cooler idea earlier I wasn't to sure that that was the right equipment, but it is the right price so I may try it anyway and I will post my review at a later time for the equipment I plan on using. Just as a note I am planning on using a dehumidifier to collect my dew, and will change out the plastic tray for a glass casserole dish, so if anyone thinks that that is a bad idea I'd like to know why before I buy one.

Ok Goatz

Either idea should work, the important thing is that we can conclude the operation.

I myself think that the heating mantle will dispense the need of two devices. but.

as you said who knows how accurate in the taking care of temperature Mr Leyden was
in the middle ages.

If you are going to use the Crock pan and the mini fridge , let´s know

hows it going. Thanks!

Hello again Goatz.

Can you give us an ideia on how are going to use the Dehumidifier?

Doesnt the Humidifier puts something unnatural to the process with the risk

of taking the spirit out of the Dew?

Like it seems to me that the water condensation from the equipment

wil not have anything to do with energy from the Moon and stars.

Thanks in advance

Hi,

I have just received my Hot plate from the USA via ebay: It's a Thermolyne hot plate type 1900 240V (for USA it is 120V AC) 750W. Price : $137 (shipping cost included) The temperature is from 0 to 700°F and I can control it approximately degree by degree ( I have tested it with a digital thermometer and was able to stabilize temperature at about 86°F/ 30°C but one can go lower than that and much higher). I should be able to make the whole process with it. Here are some exemples of Thermolyne hot plate type 1900.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/__thermolyne-hotplate-1900_W0QQ_kwZthermolyneQQ_kwZhotplateQQ_kwZ1900QQ_ckwZv

Caution : sometimes, the shipping cost can be excessive !

Good luck !

I'm still baffled that people are making something so simple become so complicated. The balneo mary can be done with a 15 dollar heating pad from walgreens drugstore, and the sandbath is done with a 10 dollar hotplate from walgreens

I love it! There's an old saying, "The Americans may have sent man to the moon in a caddilac, but the Russians got him into space in a tin can!" The fancy equipment may be nice and exact and all, but when it comes right down to it, it is the cheap, simple, efficient and effective stuff that just gets the job done. Besides, the old alchemists didn't have mercury thermometers or digital hotplates. They used their HANDS!!! I think I agree with Nick on this one, get down to basics and just do the work. And save your money for the gold or antimony later on. By the way, if you really feel the need to keep track of the exact temperature, just buy a simple three dollar cooking thermometer and stick it next to the bottle in the heating pad. Also, some other people on this forum have noticed that some brands of heating pads shut off after about half an hour so just make sure you get one that doesn't do that. Remember, all the important alchemists say that the philosophers stone is child's play. Simple, practical, affordable, easy.

HI Nick,

I just discovered Why we were looking for other appliances, I was trying
for a few weeks to search Walgreens for your "hot Plate"
and the results never show anything. Now the mystery is over:

The right words for your device in their site is "single burner"

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=302575&navAction=jump&navCount=3&nug=VPD&skuid=sku350528&id=prod350527

Does the temp. control of this one is good? meaning can you set it at
200F easily? This device is 1000 Watts ( but may consume less according to the dial )

How do you put your Flask on it?

Do you use a Metallic box with some sand in it?

Thanks!

True:
Are you talking about the KISS method.

I would think a simple stainless steel bowl, square or round would work.
If you have an adversion to metal then a deep pyrex or ceramic bread
pan or something of that nature. I'm sure you could find any of these at
Wallmart or any department store.


MO-1

if you really wanted to get an exact measurement of the temperature inside of the flask, couldn't you just take your flask, before you have any dew in it, put a thermometer inside of it, top it off, and put the heat on it? as long as you put a thermometer that can read and take high temp inside, and you can clearly see through the bottle, i would think that after a week or so of building up pressure it would reach it's optimum temperature, and you could tweak it slightly at that point and watch it until you reach your desired temperature. i know that i am going to use Nick's suggestion of the sunbeam heating pad, simply because this is his forum, this entire things existence is thanks to him, and if he says it works, by god, it works!

once again, thank you Nicholas for sharing this with so many and creating this opportunity for each and every person to better themselves, further their knowledge, tune in to the universe, and stay in perfect health. There is no greater blessing than I can imagine besides what you offer, may god see that you always have whatever it is that you need when you need it. thank you, and blessed be!

I don't use the walgreens hotplate for heating my dew flask - I use my heating mantle in my lab. It has a fiberglass cloth holder, so I just set the bottle right inside. But it operates by turning on/off at a set frequency --- when you turn up the heat, it just makes the "on time" be longer so the flask gets hotter. It's made for a 2 liter flask and is about half the wattage of the walgreens hotplate.



The walgreens hotplate works by the same method -- it turns on/off to make the temperature constant. So I see no reason why it wouldn't work just fine, but it's just more of a fire hazard than the heating mantle which is encased and prevents the heating element from catching things on fire.

Dear Friends,
This is the site where I found my “heating machine” for more or less 100 $:
http://www.falcinstruments.it/
They have very good and cheap stuff. and various heating apparels:
http://www.falcinstruments.it/catalog/core/cat_results.php?LNG=

The one I’ll use for 200° F. With only 800 watt and little effort (position 1.5 on a scale of 5):
http://www.falcinstruments.it/catalog/core/sk_prod.php?ID=318&LNG=

I’m looking for something more simple for 130°.
I already use “horses heating”, but there’s a risk: all those smart guys who will open the strange flask just to smell it.
Better the horses are yours.
Or mine.

Zosimo

Oh
Now it makes sense, My conclusion that the heating mantle is the best choice
for this process is validated then.

I´ll get a 1 liter one. it consumes 300 Watts at maximum.

It simplifies the Process I`m certain.

Now what is the atitude for the handling this operation?

The Quantum Phisycists stated that the results of an experience

are affected by the presence or by the intention of the person doing it.

Is the will power, or Intention power involved in this or the results will

be the same regardless of one believing or not the outcome ?

Is the long process of the digestion of the salt +DEW happening

together with an inner digestion too?

Ok, I've decided that I'm going to do thinks Nick's way, the cheap affordable way. So what, the wattage isn't that important. When you are finished, you'll have the stone, which is worth more than many people could ever dream of. I'm going to use the heating pad, and probably the two light bulbs idea. Nick, do you know what the wattage on the light bulbs was that your student used? Was it 60w? 80w? I think that would be an affective and affordable way of doing it. I mean, what's two more light bulbs in the house right?

Mrgiller I posted how dehumidifiers work on the dew collection topic.

theFool using a toaster oven is a bad idea, they are fire hazards! After a few days of use they could catch fire.

I spoke with my father on this issue, I am not boasting but he is a master electrician at an automobile prototype engineering plant and is a genius when it comes to this sort of thing, he also said that the dimmer switches they make today also change the frequency and could have unexpected results like a fire especially if you don't use a GFI. He explained to me more in 20 minutes on how electricity and heat work together than I've ever known. His first recommendation was a lab oven but if its too much the slow cooker with a GFI would work as long as the thing would hold out for the entire process. He may be a D#%$, but he is really frickin smart, and I would suggest to everyone else to head his advice, and go with either these 2 or the light bulbs. If you use the light bulbs try lining a cardboard box with aluminum foil and get a RTD thermometer ( http://www.scientificsales.co.nz/digital-lcd-panel-tpm-10.html ) with a probe with a cord to constantly monitor the temperature, and using a dimer switch for this would be fine and recomended. All of this could be nicely attached to the box and even look nice. This would be super cheap and with the lined box and a 125 watt bulb should be enough.