Distillation & the Salt/ Dew Process

Hi Luce7,

Thanks for sending me the furnace plans.

chercheur01(at)gmail.com

Hi Don,

I wouldn't mind receiving those furnace plans too. Thanks.

frank-vs(at)web.de

Frank

I haven’t said much these last couple of months because I am still working on my dew collector and I have a busy work schedule, but I have kept up with you all by reading all the posts and you guys rock. It feels good to be part of a forum that is actually doing something. I have been studying alchemy for 4 years and to me this finding of great importance. I have collected allot of information about a magnetic bacteria that lives in the oceans depths, thriving in the hot water thermal vents. I think that this is what you are finding and is why you get more when you distill it under high heat. I believe that this bacterium is a very important part of the process, and is most likely trapped within the sea salt lattice where it is released and reanimated when heated. I haven’t said much about my alchemical theories because this is a practical alchemy site and I don’t want to act like I know something until I have tried it myself. I also respect this forum, but this should explain the magnetic nature of the brown distillates when there was nothing magnetic before.
Cheers.


SOUTH-SEEKING MAGNETIC BACTERIA
BY J. L. KIRSCHVINK
Department of Geological and Geophysical Sciences,
Princeton University, Princeton, N.J. 08544
(Received 29 January 1980)
During the past few years, a wide variety of living organisms have been found
which biologically synthesize the ferrimagnetic mineral, magnetite (Fe3O4). First
discovered as a biogenic material in the teeth of a primitive mollusc, the chiton
(Polyplacophora, Lowenstam 1962), it has since been found as an organic precipitate
in magnetically sensitive honey bees (Gould, Kirschvink & Deffeyes, 1978), homing
pigeons (Walcott, Gould & Kirschvink, 1979) and bacteria (Frankel, Blakemore &
Wolfe, 1979). In all of these organisms (except the chiton), the magnetite is apparently
used to orient with or detect the direction and intensity of the earth's magnetic field
(Kirschvink, 1979; Kirschvink & Gould, in review).
Magnetotactic bacteria, originally discovered by Blakemore (1975), are by far the
most convincing and abundant example of magnetically sensitive organisms in
existence. Their magnetite crystals passively align the bacteria with the earth's
magnetic field like a 3-dimensional compass (Frankel et al. 1979).
The bacterium Magnetospirillum magnetotacticum produces particles of magnetite (more commonly known as rust) just 30-50 nanometres across.
M. magnetotacticum seems to use its rust particles to guide its movements. The particles are strung into chains that act like a compass needle inside the cells, allowing the bacterium to sense the Earth's magnetic field and tell up from down. "Nature is capable of making amazing biominerals,"

Hi luce7

I also would like a copy of your furnace plans. I'm at
kevinpaw123(at)fastmail.fm
Thanks much!

Hi rkclmbrmike,

That is one very interesting and cool article on those magnetic bacteria. They could well be the agents for putrefaction of our salt. Makes sense. I haven't yet checked out my latest high temperature-induced precipitate for magnetism. I only have a strong ceramic magnet. 'Thefool' thinks I should use a regular magnet also. I will test it when I get a chance. Your theory about the bug being trapped in the sea salt lattice is good.

Cheers..... Don

Regarding my plans for a small melting furnace suitable for alchemical work, including calcining salts, smelting ores and melting metals.... I will just post rough plans now and more specific details and photos next week when I have my furnace finished and up and running.

First of all I recommend a good propane torch which is inserted into the furnace, but can also be used independently for other jobs. I have had a TurboTorch for many years which performs and delivers superior heat from regular propane because of a clever patented head which spirals the gas like a turbocharger.



This is manufactured in the US but available all over the world.

Below is the basic design of the furnace. A lot more details and dimensions later.
One important detail is that I am building for a 2kg capacity graphite crucible of dimensions 110mm H x 96mm W, but I can also use smaller ceramic or graphite crucibles if I want. Another important detail is that there is an optimum clearance between the crucible and the furnace wall, in order to reach maximum heat. In this case the optimum clearance is 7cm minimum or 2.5 - 3 inches.





I have been real lucky. I found a guy who makes outdoor wood-fired pizza ovens. So he has been helping me out. It helps if you are lucky.
A very simple version of the the above furnace can be made just using fire bricks, high temperature furnace mortar from the hardware store, and a bag of pearlite soil conditioner from the garden supply. And as Robert Bartlett says on p.139 of "The Way of the Crucible"..... mix about one part of the mortar with four parts pearlite to form a sticky mass. Mould the material into bricks, render to round out the inside walls, or whatever shape needed to create your furnace hot box, fill in gaps around the gas inlet and the exhaust, etc., and let dry completely before use.

Hi Don and all,

Patrick Riviere sells torch and electric furnaces.
www.alchymie.net/

Frank

This recipie comes from Sir Kenelm Digby, RAMS material.



Backs up well the opinions of luce7 and of course Lully's process. Sir Kenelm Digby is a highly trusted source for me.

I am sure now that the ingredients have to be prepared before mixing it.The salt has to be made fusible and the dew boiled(and i mean boiled NOT smoked) and let to putrefy.
That's why everyone has failed...

"Note, that you must not decrepitate your salt".
This is the most significant statement for me in this Kenelm Digby tract.
I assume you (theFool) have already taken salt to glowing?
Since salt melts at over 800°c, I was expecting to take it to about 700°c to get it glowing. But I assume it would decrepitate way below that, so maybe glowing without decrepitation would be more like 500°c. I guess trial and error will show the way. What is your experience with this?

Also I note that some authors see fusible (ie. capable of being fused and especially liquefied by heat) as the same as fixed? My interpretation may be wrong, but my thinking was that we are making the salt more volatile. Becoming fusible I see as becoming more volatile, rather than becoming more fixed.

Interesting thoughts luce7.
The only person that is capable of performing this task here is you, so the only way to see if this works(can the salt become fusible?!) is to wait for your results...

Until then we can only theorize as usual.

Quote :

What is your experience with this?

Unfortunately, I have not much experience on salt calcination. Maybe if you grind it well and raise the fire very slowly decrepitation could be avoided.

Quote :

Also I note that some authors see fusible (ie. capable of being fused and especially liquefied by heat) as the same as fixed? My interpretation may be wrong, but my thinking was that we are making the salt more volatile. Becoming fusible I see as becoming more volatile, rather than becoming more fixed.

I'm really baffled with all those recipes and theories. I don't know what to say. Some say to draw the spirit from it, some to make it fusible.

My main concern now is to understand the nature of the brown 'dirt' and make whatever observations possible in order to formulate some theory of my own. Just following recipes and expecting to get the result is not working for me.

For example, at Lully's recipe I think you have to dissolve the salt in fresh well water each time, not in its own distillate (he is not so clear in his description). Such small differences can decide the result. I'm sure there are more 'tricks' hidden behind the lines.

Great reference from the rams, it brings back the realization that it is unnecessary for us to overcomplicate this process. It is child’s play as Nick suggests we just have to believe it. We also need to begin to put together the significance of each purification / digestion, and its possible effect. The fool, you were saying that your main concern was this dirt. You should be, because you and other people have been able to get it consistently, even when using different sources of water or salt, and when using different methods of digestion. Luce7, even had a brief flame out where the brown powder fluoresced and then instantly oxidized. This alone tells us that the powder is not simply rust. Fe2O3 is obviously already oxidized and it wouldn’t ignite when exposed to the air anyway. This is something entirely new. The completed stone glows on it’s own when completed. A small spark is a good beginning.
This weekend I am going to try a new path of digestion; something that came to me last night after reading these posts. It will increase the heat, decrease the digestion time, withstand pressure and stay hermetically sealed. It sounds a little unorthodox for alchemy but it has all the features of a high end alchemical tool, and the auto clave is used in many modern chemical reactions. If I get the brown salt distillate this weekend from using a pressure cooker, I will let you know.
Grace to you

Hi dejan07,

dejan07 wrote:

That's why everyone has failed...

I don't think anyone has failed here, Dejan. It's just we need to learn all the tricks. No authors have given us the plain and simple recipe, not even Nick. We have to take from here and there, mix it up with intuition, patience and experience, to fill in the whole picture.

dejan07 wrote:

Interesting thoughts luce7.
The only person that is capable of performing this task here is you, so the only way to see if this works(can the salt become fusible?!) is to wait for your results...
Until then we can only theorize as usual.

To get a temperature hot enough to glow the salt, you would only need to stack a few firebricks around the crucible placed on a firebrick pedestal, and blast the crucible with a propane torch through a gap in the bricks. Anyone can do that with little cost. Alternatively you can make Robert Bartlett's rough furnace out of 2 tin cans and some furnace mortar mix. You don't have to make my more permanent 1100°c furnace.

Finally getting my furnace up and running >>





I haven't glowed any salt just yet since I have to tweak the system a little to get optimum heat and exhaust flow around the crucible.

Dear all,
what you think about this:
1- Reusenstein pag.108 (and pag 76 and 102)
2- Compendium - Chemical Moonshine
3- Chemical Moonshine (the commetaries about point 2)
Can be compound togheter as the same path...
...You think that we have to start boiling, and loose , some of our dew?
Somebody is already experienced?

Thank you all

Zosimo

I don't know Thillum,
Your distillator looks very mystical but, , with a rubber-plastic stopper !
And with a very thin pipe to pass from the flask...
A real distillator costs at least $ 70 if you buy it in a shop...
Good luck _.

Zosimo

I collected my dew 5 days ago, and got about 3 quarts. I had forgotten about keeping the temp under 7o deg. and it may have gotten as hot as 90. Is this rule still an absolute? Please tell me it is not completely screwed up.

hello zosimo & goatz Fragile Dew ? I dont think so ..After going over Ruesenstein a half dozen times. they say that its in all waters , snow/ dew/ rainwater/ and small standing mountain pools . the more rancid the better.. to gather enough to put in a oak rain barrel, Dew just wont cut it.. and they want you to boil it too.. more waste. so dont worry about it. in fact im going to mix my rain water & dew and im also makeing a trip up to the mtns to get gallons of putrid standing pool water. away from any possible human contamination camp grounds and such..

and Zosimo your on the right track, Like your self , I'm cherry-picking the most often repeated directions related to the dew / rainwater methods . Because I want to at least , get to the Medicinal / Spiritual Alkahest phase... if nothing else..
take care guys Auggie

Thanks for the insight it is greatly appreciated I will try it as is and post my results upon completion. I live in the Appalachians and the dew here is very rich. I had tasted some after gathering and it feels thick in my mouth and has a stagnant aftertaste. I had gathered some prior and a slug got in there and it was full of slime. I chose to buy a commercial sea salt from the Kroger specialty section called DeLallo a "sal Marinho" or natural sea salt from Portugal. It was about $3 for 8oz. If you want some stagnant mountain water I could find some if you want to pay the shipping for it. But with all of the gray water runoff, coal mines, and gas wells it is difficult to find untainted water. Let me know, just send me an email, its available through the forum.

Dear Friends,
Did you find something more (than Rue, Chem moon. and its commentaries) about dew in RAMS?
Anyway, just so, alchemists say that the waterworks are the more difficult.

Me too, Auggie, I boiled dew and rainwater, but I think that dew is more powerfull so I didn't mix; I want to mantain two different exp..

I felt in the mouth and in the nose a "flavour" that can be the one of the famous niter... and it's metallic and magnetic like, let's say, the one you can smell if you lick copper.

As a sommelier I've another insight: no need to buy barrels when you can put pieces of wood insiide your glass bottle. Wine makers do it and it works.

Bless and bliss to you

Zosimo

There are literally over 25 books in the first CD alone that contain dew references and/or complete processes, and their are 3 CDs, so yeah, dew is pretty important in alchemy I would say.

Yes _, but I'm looking for all those texts that speak loudly to my "deafness".
I found some, the one I've said, and I'm very gratefull.
But may be you are right: I shoul go inside pag 108 of Rues. as I did for Gualdi-Glauber opus.
I found in my library two compendium of operative alchemy that explaine somethign about salts that can be really usefull for us: for instance they use to empower the saltpetre during its crystallization with allume and sal ammoniac.
But, first of all I want to exp with them.

Zosimo

Zosimo, the dew method has nothing to do with nitre. The only nitre in dew is trace amounts of ammonium nitrate, which breaks down and evaporates away during the calcination step.

The salt which the process is centered around actually doesn't come from the caput mortum which is left behind after you distill the honey-like liquor of dew. The secret salt forms from the refined and redistilled water portion of the dew, which is distilled 10 times to remove the useless phlegm. This milky white water alone, when digested by itself, will form the secret salt, turning itself into a stone.

I found the full explanation of how to distill the dew and separate it's parts in the book "The Art of Distillation" on the first CD of the RAMS library.

Thillum wrote:

I just ordered a distillation kit for around $64 off of ebay, Great deal. There are 30 or so in stock found here.

I just wanted to mention that distillation system is used for fractional distillation and also doesn't have ground glass joints so rubber stopper have to be used on everything, which will most likely be eaten by our Alkahest and by any solvents or acids distilled in it. Because its a fractional distillation system, it will take much longer to distill water (dew), and it probably won't be able to distill the heavy red oil of dew which comes over last at high temperature.

Let me explain why;
that system is designed so when vapors rise up, first they have to go through the tiny tube then a lot of the vapor will condense in the kedjal (sp.) type flask and drip back down in the distillation flask and never make it up into the condenser. The system is designed that way so use it to separate chemicals of different boiling points from a single solution of mixed chemicals. The only real use for it is in making drugs, in particular ecstasy requires the use of a fractional distillation system in order to obtain the 1st and primary ingredient, safrole, which is found in sassafras oil and needs to be fractional distilled to separate it from the rest of the chemicals in the oil. I wouldn't doubt it if 99% of the people who buy these fractional distillation systems off eBay were indeed using it for manufacturing one drug or another (but of course I'm not suggesting that Thillum is using it for that purpose )