Proper Crucibles for the Dry Path

Amico Zosimo,

Quote :

It's my impression or our friends of the R9D kiln rised a lot the price?
Did you find other similar products?

Look at this new 1 kg one for 320€: Max Temp. not 1100°C but 1200°C.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Schmelzofen-1-Kg-digital-Altgold-Zahngold-1200-C-/270599103119?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Goldschmiedewerkzeug&hash=item3f00f6a28f

Did you know that those graphite kilns are mainly produced in Italy? Try Italian Ebay.

Frank

I was unaware they raised the price on the R9D kiln. That really sucks. I knew it was too good of a deal to last, but they might be selling the same kiln on eBay for less. Even when I bought mine, I think I got it from eBay because it was $300 with shipping included, but the website was $300 + S&H.

Thank you both Bros.,
At the moment I'm "sticky fingered" about money and my wallet confides me that I'd better to make a home-made kiln.
A very simple one:
- the crucible closed with the cerawool (and the lid above of it! )
- I'll hold the crucible tight by cerawool aaaaalll around
- and well pressed by 3 steel arms with security screws
- some brick around
- and butan / propane flame on it

Zosimo

Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this 3 kilo graphite furnace with digital control. a little bigger than the r9-d but looks to do the same thing. i looked at the russian ones frank had a link to but they don't ship to Australia. and this one is still a good sized kiln.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Furnace-Melt-Scrap-Silver-Gold-Pour-Bars-220V-3-Kilo-/310228245694?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483b0b5cbe

phillip

Hey Philip,

I have just phoned the Aram Trade company in Bremen, Germany to check whether they ship to Australia. They said they haven't yet but sure they would. They have a 1,2,and 3 kg model that has max-temp. of 1200°C.

I had the 2 kg version of the model you showed which goes only up to 1100°C I sent it back because it is hard to melt a regulus or it takes too long to melt gold

I don't recommend the 3 kg model because the crucibles are too heavy to be taken out.

All those furnaces in the links are all from Italy. But I haven't found the producers yet.

Zosimo take a look!

Frank

Frank,
so it's better to have a small graphite furnace like a 1/2 kg or something instead of a bigger 1,2,3kg version in this case?

if thats the case then i'm sold for the R9D after all.

phillip

Philip,

Quote :

so it's better to have a small graphite furnace like a 1/2 kg or something instead of a bigger 1,2,3kg version in this case?

No I was saying that I would not recommend the 3 kg furnace you showed in the link because a filled 3 kg crucible would afford special tongs to pour the stuff out and it has a max temp. of only 1100°C.

I'd rather go for a 2 kg version with 1200°C max. temp. like the ones in my link.

But if you haven't tested the waters yet a small RD9 is good for a start.If it's good enough for a pro like Nick it should be good enough for us. I guess if you are successful you can get youself any number of furnaces.

Frank

Hi All,

I've found this info in the little Alchemist notebook I noted down in my youth.

It's a french-school way to do yourself crucibles and probabloy this is the reason why french alchemist are always so worry about breacking the crucibles and, if possible, pour the mold matter on their shoes.
But I think it can be a praiseworthy idea made ourselves the crucible. If it works.
I didn't make it myself, but my info can be a start if you like the doityourself style.
They use a chalk mould to shape the stuff and let it dry: the refractory matter is made of
- 6 ana clay
- 4 ana chamotte (that siliceous clay e.g. they have in Fontainebleau near Paris)
for normal sized crucible.
But it depends on the size of the hole inside the crucible the percent of clay or chamotte: if I remember well chamotte makes the mixture harder, and clay make it more elastic.
Of course, to avoid the breaking of the crucible because of the tongs grip it's better to shape a handling form or hem near the border of the crucible or, better, a little knob on the 4/5 of the height.

Crucibles used since chalcolithic and bronze age for copper smelting had these "handles forms" and spouring spouts, and are generally a wide shallow type of vessel which were made from clay that lacks refractory properties which is similar to the types of clay used in other ceramics of the time.

I've found cheaper kilns that look like RD9 but without "D" becauase they don't have any digital temp.; you're right Frank, Saturn kilns are gorgeous and, like many others, are made in Italy but looks like something esoteric: no way to find the factory! I should buy it in USA or even in Malaysia!

Zosimo

Greetings to all Kindred Souls,

I feel that the requirements in order to co-create the Stone require greater care and skill than is offered by the R-9 Kiln, as I have failed at containing the Stone in the crucible.

Verily, I have great fruit to show the merits of my progress:

As of yet, all I have to show of my endeavors is this:


Notice the interplay of Red and Orange...

Upon closer inspection, I have come to the conclusion, that my Volatitle Salt is corroding the underside of the metal lid to the R-9 furnace.. Initially, I believed my inswool was not sufficient in sealing the crucible as is expected, and went forward purchasing a graphite slab in hopes of creating a better reductionist environment for the union. To my dismay, I procured the same results, just a round piece of sol no greater than 3 mm in diameter sitting alone in the graphite crucible.

In Lieu of the above,

I have made a crude blueprint of a quartz crucible which I will send away for, possibly, as the price for such a thing is something to consider in my current state of affairs.

Here are the Specifications that I drew up to meet the dimensions for operation with an R-9 and R-9D Kiln:


Legend:
OD- outer diameter
WT- wall thickness
T- thickness

The Cover looks similar to this:


The reasoning for this was because in R-9 and R-9D Kilns, the crucible sits on the flange as it is held within the furnace. Therefore the cover could not pass the flange and would best sit on top, with ample pressure to keep it secure and closed. Where the crucible meets the cover will be ground in order to allow a better seal, with high temperatures.

Yet, there is an error in the calculations for the cover. The ID or inner Diameter should be just inside the outer diameter of the crucible minus its wall thickness, 27-2 which is approximately 25 mm in order to create a very secure lid. I will update them accordingly.

Does anyone know of any better alternatives?

I'm debating purchasing a model in the catalogue and adapting accordingly to suit the requirements.

Although if anyone who has a R-9 and would be interested, I'd feel more comfortable ordering multiple crucibles in order to rid myself of the $15 fee for orders under $100. Perhaps I can sway them for a better bargain if enough of us wish to order a lot or more.

Let me know by email: rbdsouza (a) gmail.

Your thoughts and insight would be appreciated as well.

Cheers

Thanatos wrote:

Does anyone know of any better alternatives [for crucibles]?
[snip]
Your thoughts and insight would be appreciated as well.

I have a system for making small graphite crucibles that I have used for non-alchemy-related experiments, which seems applicable to this process. This system is useful for kilning very small quantities of material in a reducing environment. If you are clever with a drill, these crucibles should be easy to make, and are very inexpensive, once you pay a minimal "start up" cost.

Unfortunately, I have not gotten to the "cook red crystals with gold leaf" stage, so I don't know if these crucibles will work for our process or not, but I will briefly explain how to make them, in case other people are interested in giving them a try.

The crucibles in the following pictures are 3/8 inch in diameter and about 1 inch tall. The inside diameter is 1/4 inch...





These crucibles were made by drilling a 1/4 inch hole most of the way down the center of an inch-long piece of 3/8 inch arc welding gouging electrode (after peeling off the copper cladding). A short piece of 1/4 inch gouging electrode is then inserted into this hole, to act as a plug / lid. Before putting the crucible in the kiln, the plug can be wired in place with a piece of thin steel wire (as shown in the picture above).

Here is a link to an online welding shop that sells these gouging electrodes in small quantities. This will give you an idea of what they look like. The electrodes pictured in the baggies are six inches long.

Here is what I use to make the crucibles. A normal pencil gives a sense of scale. These crucibles are very small...



The two gouging electrodes (3/8 inch and 1/4 inch) are on the left. Obviously, you do not drill all the way through the piece of larger electrode, because you want the crucible to have a bottom / floor. Note that graphite dulls standard drill bits very, very quickly. For this reason, I use a carbide-tipped masonry bit.

I have found that it's easier to drill a "true" hole down the center of the electrode if I use a jig made with a piece of wood and a drill press vise...



The vise pinches the wood around the piece of gouging electrode, holding it gently but snugly in place for the drilling operation.

I used 3/8 inch electrodes, because they were handy. Because of that, the hole down the center had to be carefully centered, or I would have left a thin spot in the crucible wall. For this reason, I drilled the hole with a drill press. I recommend using a 1/2 inch electrode for the crucible, because it will be much more forgiving at hole drilling time - probably forgiving enough to allow the use of an electric hand drill.

The obnoxious part of all of this is that most welding shops (in the United States, at least) do not sell the small diameter gouging electrodes like the ones I am using here in single-unit quantities. Instead, they are sold in boxes of 50, for about $20 a box. Some welding shops sell the larger sizes (1/2 inch and above) one at a time, due to their higher cost. The URL I gave above links to an online welding supply company that sells the carbons in small quantities, though, which makes the "start up" cost very reasonable.

When it's time to use the crucible, I fill it with whatever I am going to be roasting to a depth of about 1/4 inch, pack it down with the plug, and then wire the plug in place. Note that steel wire survives the strongly reducing environment better than stainless steel does. The crucible is then placed inside a larger clay crucible that is filled with ground up charcoal briquettes. A lid is placed on the clay crucible and this assembly is put in the furnace. By completely encasing the small graphite crucible in ground charcoal, a reducing environment is guaranteed. This has the side effect of making the crucibles last "forever", since no oxygen is available to erode them away! If I had the furnace that Nick has, I would just stack a handful of these micro-crucibles in the furnace's big graphite crucible and then cover them with a layer of charcoal powder to guarantee a reducing environment.

Note that it is easy to run the furnace with many crucibles at the same time - just bury them all in the ground charcoal. The crucibles can be easily labeled by carefully scratching their outside surface. An engraver makes the labeling process especially easy.

There we have it! If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

If you are feeling peckish, then it's time for a glorious...

- ramen

Dear Ramen,

I love your ingenuity, that's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing and inspiring myself and others to follow our creative impetus; I believe this is how Source, God/Godess/All that is intended life to be. A great continuos creative inspiration. I'm overjoyed to think that the work of all our fellow members on this forum is completely changing the way we view the world. Such that we will no longer be weighed down by lack or doubt, as Life is not ment for suffering but the greater realms of experince that only come to fruition once we have satiated our basic survival needs. These are the times of prophecy, except that the energetic imprints of previous projections fall short of the truth of these times... We are no longer on a track with a forseeable fate but co-creating our future from one collective moment to the next..

Thanks for the insight. Its nice to hear that the oxidation is what eats away at the graphite crucibles... very good observation. I was wondering why my crucible was getting devoured from the outside but impeccable from the inside..

I have yet to fix the salts, it seems for I have been playing with the pure white volatile salt, hence my unsuccess at transformation into the red glass.... What are the philosophical names or various metaphors used to describe this red glass? Red Earth? They provid good food for thought and introspection.

Cheers