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 Help with making projection powder.

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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Help with making projection powder.   Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:56 pm

Ok so now that I have gotten to the point of fermenting the stone with gold, I'm kind of stuck.

I ordered some 96.5% gold leaf on ebay only to find it lacking in actual gold content. (dissolves completely in nitric acid) No 

Even if this wasn't a problem,it still requires a furnace to melt yet more gold to convert the fermented stone to projection powder.  confused 

So if anyone has a furnace,the ability to make nitric acid, and gold to use. I would be willing to send someone an unfermented sample,along with some bees wax. (would be fermented if my gold leaf wasn't fake).
If you have any luck with transmutation,I'll just let you keep the gold,so you can use it to ferment another sample.

According to several authors (including nick) study the creation of projection powder and actual projection,should both be done with bees wax and stirred with an iron rod for a full hour.  The bees wax and stirring seems to keep the stone from evaporating before it has a chance to work. The fermented stone may have to be sublimed in order to be made potent enough to work. This would require a tall (preferably air tight) crucible heated only on the bottom,so that it could also function sort of like a still.
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: Subject: Help with making projection powder.    Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:01 pm

Solar How much gold is needed I just got a shipment in from Tihaland
and I have a home made smelter for melting metals PM me If you want to talk on the phone


Alkem
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:54 pm

The amount of gold needed is rather sizable in this economy.

To ferment the stone,I find about a sheet of gold leaf will do 1/4 of a gram at most. (not too bad)

To create projection powder it requires 10 parts of gold by volume to 1 part of stone. To prevent the experiment from being vanishingly small,it would take about a gram of gold.

Given that I have not tried it yet I have no way to know weather or not it'll work on the first try. So unless a transmutation happens,it could get rather expensive in just the chemicals to recover the gold before it turns out right.

One option I came across recently is the novel idea that the stone can and should be fermented multiple times. The hope is that multiple fermentations would make it increasingly more metallic,and there fore more capable of mixing with and transmuting metals.
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:07 pm

I have 100 gold leaves or would gold fillings work money is not a problem for me at this point in time
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:14 pm

Ok. Sounds good so far. I think gold filings would work fine. If you have a way to make nitric acid and a way to keep the gold molten while stirring it for an hour, I think it'll work. At the very least we'll be able to figure out what happens.
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: projection   Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:15 am

I have the furnace and the gold just wandering What the nitric is for

Its not hard to make nitric.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:57 am

If you dissolve the stone in nitric,then the combination is a form of aqua regia. Nitric by itself cannot dissolve gold and the stone by itself does not combine with gold,but together it dissolves gold and combines with it.

Kind of a neat trick I picked up.
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:34 pm

Ok I understand how you are thinking now I do know aqua regia
will dissolve gold done it many times so your stone added to nitric
makes it a form of aqua regia cool
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NEPTUNE

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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:33 pm


Proportions are in Nicks book. Purple gold hyroxide may be more reactive and gold should be >99%. Graphite seal tube 1000 celsius 23h if  recall.
There are also chloride salts of gold in solution from that company in Utah. I always wondered whthappens with platinum, iridium or rhodium.
Only aqua regia dissolves gold.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:30 pm

Actually there are other things that dissolve gold besides aqua regia. Cyanide for example is extremely good at dissolving gold. I'm most interested in the use of phosphorous in place of chlorine for an alternate aqua regia recipe.
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Zosimo

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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:59 am

Dear Bros,
To have gold dust you simply need a goldsmith metal file.
If you need a salt of gold I remind you all the methods that you can find on the encyclopedic texts like Lefevre, Lemery or Glauber with his Ysopaica. Even Tugel or Jugel, I mean his "Moses" process where says "sal metallorum est lapis philosophorum".
To have a kiln, you just need some refractory bricks, concrete or metal (better) structures where you set the bricks, some ceramic wool and a butane torch and a long pipe to engage it with a butane tank. The structure and the bricks should not be completely, hermetically closed, but must have a hole, a discharge vent.
The butane torch will turn red any crucible in a short time.
Wear, please, a face shield.

Can somebody explain me why instead of melting together the unripe ana 1/10 parts of stone with ana 1 gold, we should use nitric acid?
Thank you.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:18 am

Because the GW stone melts before the gold does, it there fore encases the gold and protects the gold from heat.

You have to either melt the gold and add the unfermented stone wrapped in bees wax to it,then stir it with an iron rod for an hour. (dry path)  Or you can use nitric acid fortified with the unfermented stone to dissolve gold. (wet path)

Either way you end up with the same result, the wet way is just significantly easier, cheaper on fuel,and can be done on a much smaller scale there for using less gold.

I also read that you can fortify wine or grain alcohol with the unfermented stone to dissolve gold as well. Its supposed to turn into a grass green solution. I haven't tried it yet but it should work.
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Zosimo

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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:01 am

Thank you Solarseeker.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:41 pm

UPDATE: alkem5161 has been very helpful so far.

The sample of stone I sent him does in fact make an alkahest of sorts when dissolved in alcohol. It dissolves gold fairly well to produce a reddish brown (almost black) oily substance. For curiosity sake he also tried it with acetone and came out with the same result.

If you add the powdered stone wrapped in bees wax to molten gold and stir it with an iron rod for nearly an hour, it does strange things to gold. You wind up with a black (tarnished looking) crumbly form of gold. It does not dissolve in water but does dissolve in alcohol and acetone.

(I wonder if it can dissolve silver)

This seems to be in direct agreement with the writings of the sages. Black being a sign of death and putrefaction, afro and the stone/alkahest albino being called a great poison/basilisk because it can kill the king king (the king of metals = gold)

Soooo unless there are intermediate colors,the next color ought to be the ruby red of our blessed stone. cherry
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:25 am

Update: So I tested the sample of this "alkahest" with gold dissolved in it and it cannot endure the fire. It simply burns to ash which further burns and evaporates cleanly into the air. No

It has quite a bit of psychic energy but I honestly don't know what to do with it.
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: Subject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:46 pm

Update I took part of the red liquid that was produced and added a little acetone to it to get it do to a more liquid state so that I could get it into my retort because the glass stopper is broke off in the filling port so ever thing has to be put in through the neck with a funnel.

the I put a fire under it and attached a reciver to it and just let it cook the first thing to come over was a golden sprit then the reciver was changed and a clear acidic sprit came over this was discarded
then every thing in the retort was turned in to ash by fire trying to get it to a white stage this did not happen so distilled water was added to the black mass in the retort and left over night on blano marie the the mass was filtred out and and the distilled water left to
evaporate this produced a very nice white salt of cube shape about 1 /16 of inch in diameter and of pearlecent shine it also formed sheets
like ice. Then the black feces was treated with acetone again and this produced a orange liquid this was left to evaporate producing a nice deep orange color the three have been come bind in to a flask
and are now digesting togeather I had just a little gold leaf left over
and put a drop of this liquid on it dissolves the gold slowly need to get some more leaf I have an Idea but Ill leave it at that for now

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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:04 am

Sounds awesome! can you post some pictures?
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: help with making projection powder   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:52 am

Yes I have some pics on photo bucket

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
golden liquid

salt and both liquids comebind
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

sorry I doint have a picture of the salt
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alkem5161



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PostSubject: Subject: help with making projection powder    Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:38 pm

I did put some of the liquid over a small piece of silver and it dissolved  it some what into a white chalky powder  not a nitrate
but if you put gold in to it . it will dissolve a lot faster it seems to have an affinity for gold.

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
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lucifer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:57 am

All those observations you make in this thread, are quite interesting for me. As I see it, the gold should be "dissolved" into a redness and possibly into blackness by just coming in contact with the correct "stone". The dissolution will not be at all similar to the one performed by chemical means (aqua regia) and the gold probably leaves behind a red or black mass. On the contrary, the chemical dissolution will completely dissolve gold.
I think you are up to something good here.
I would only like to point out that probably acetone is not the best thing to use as a solvent.

alkem5161 wrote:
Update I took part of the  red liquid that was produced and added a little acetone to it to get it do to a more liquid state so that I could get it into my retort   because the glass stopper is broke off in the filling port so ever thing has to be put in through the neck with a funnel.

Acetone is prone to self-condensation reactions when heated or when there is low pH in the solution. It can take the yellow and then the red color all by itself if you leave it in digestion with an acidor other catalyst. I have seen those fake colors many times with acetone. Even Robert Bartlett in his books, he endorses the usage of acetone, which leads to false results eventually.

In your case probably this is not happening because you are mentioning that the gold is dissolved. I see in one of your picture a black mass (gold after treatment I presume). This is a proof that the colors cannot be attributed to acetone only. If it was only acetone there, it would leave the metalic gold untouched. So keep the good work, I'm glad that someone is observing some proof at last.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:20 am

I've known from the beginning that there's something inherently right about the GW path. study  The use of alcohol or in this case acetone does make me nervous though Neutral . The masters of old insist that the stone can be completed without adding ANYTHING but gold or silver to the stone. They say that the first matter has everything you need and adding anything that does not come from the first matter will confound the nature of your stone.

It seems to me that alcohol and acetone preserve the life force of the stone while fermenting it (excellent), but they also add carbon impurities to it. Suspect

I think that we have something with the concept of using a solvent but we may be using the wrong solvent. study The ALKA-hest should come from the first matter, it should distill like ALK-ohol,and it should be ALKA-line on the PH scale. Another hint is that the fermented red oil according to one account of transmutation in the book "Adept Alchemy" is that it smells like "hearts horn oil" which is the old name for "ammonia".

It's well worth the time to concentrate ammonia by distilling it and try using that as your solvent. (ammonia distills out first at a surprisingly low temperature, when it gets to a boil then the ammonia is long gone)

I tried this once before with interesting results, but I was too inexperienced to know how to proceed. At any rate it doesn't turn white when you add silver to it (silver chloride), instead it turns the lightest shade of pale blue. flower  I never had gold to test this with.
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lucifer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:17 pm

solarseeker wrote:

It's well worth the time to concentrate ammonia by distilling it and try using that as your solvent. (ammonia distills out first at a surprisingly low temperature, when it gets to a boil then the ammonia is long gone)
Do you think that the chemical called ammonia can perform the same things as ammonia coming from a natural source? My opinion is that the 'natural' ammonia carries with it something invisible which the chemical ammonia does not have. This invisible thing is that interacts with the metals and dissolves them in a special way.

I think that in the case of GW you get ammonium carbonate (sublimes at around 136 °F (below boiling water). Ammonia evaporates at much lower temperature. Ammonium carbonate can dissolve copper in the same way as ammonia; it forms a blue ammonia-copper complex. I don't know about silver. I have tested this ammonium carbonate that comes from GW on gold leaf but haven't reached to conclusive results yet.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:03 pm

Well on one hand you're absolutely right, a natural source (usually) contains a life force so alchemically its FAR superior to an unnatural one. On the other hand modern chemicals have practically no energy signature of their own,so they're a blank slate to work with.

The life force is by its very nature, a living thing which means it can grow and multiply. In this case the ammonia is thoroughly dead (one could say sterilized),but the stone you're adding it to is not. Since ammonia is a chemical constituent of the stone itself it will not harm it,but the benefits will probably be less than if you use the natural form. The advantage is that you have access to a lot more of it so sometimes the chemical can be a surprisingly good substitute and adds a lot of convenience in a pinch.

The same principal applies in soil biology. A seed will still grow and thrive in sterilized soil, but it won't do as well as if you used living soil rich in microorganisms. The microorganisms themselves can and will thrive in sterilized soil,but only if you take the time to reintroduce them from a living source.
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solarseeker



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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Also silver is chemically very similar to copper. So the effects on copper will produce a very similar result to what you get with silver.

The primary reason I say to use ammonia is because its a polar solvent (mixes with water) but doesn't contain any carbon which keeps getting in the way of making the stone pure enough to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with making projection powder.   Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:43 pm



Pictures are better than words. This is just acetone left on digestion. The evolution of colors has it all. Yellow, red black. It can mimic the true extraction very well.
That is why I ask if the "alkahest" you use dissolves the gold or leaves it intact. Acetone is unable to dissolve the gold. The "alkahest" may transform it into a red or black mass.
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