Zinc Acetate Path

T.P. wrote:

In the first instance i was reffering to Alkahest or our Vinegar. In the second i was reffering to the instructions given in Thesaurus.

You are confusing them with one another.

No TP soory bur I thinks that instead that the very confusion you have made about it
but however but not proble we continue now
1 you say so in the thesaurus thesaurorum the three principles are added with mercury vulgar and this is normal and very common ena orientation of the three principles in the kingdom metal transmutation anything special and this is a very well known technical guidance and this is a ok


but 2 the debate started if you remember well according to your statement

Their Philosophers have concealed the solvent under the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar or Alcohol Vinegar and see what kind of result he gets ...

and still you say about it

It seems he made his Vinegar from Antimony, corrosive sublimate and ammonium chloride. Rubaphilos wasted 20+ years on Lead acetate and he still works with it!


and it is here when you say

the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent

and they do not agree, regardless perntacloruro by vinegar of antimony and antimony which is a secret fire / alcaest interesting but it is not generalizable and imho I do not think that alcohol dew vinagre always hide it certainly can be some instructions but nik says and how they say gualdi or rc come with all materials obtained from various materials solveti specific and that seems to melt the gold dew dew philosofical acetate salt vinegar etc and how giustamte says bleuflord light 77 by vinegar pulled a solvete that seems to dissolve gold (now luce77 declared him to be honest but never shown) and then goes to the stone as shown in his nik pdf

now the vinegar ep antimony pentachloride Antimony is a solvent and a secret fire but I do not think that this vade always genetralizzato as you say the disguise

(of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent)

I think that all matter exists the possibility to extract a specific solvent which dissolves the gold inherent in the material used
(Sure you saw what he can not probably do not know the right instructions but this does not mean that the alchemists extracted from each subject indicated rainwater and dew salt used wine tera as shown in the books of nik thesaro thesaurorum exstasi of the gualdo etc solvete to dissolve gold)

What about you?

my best regards alexbr

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;originale italiano:::::::::::::::::::::::

No TP mi spiace ma io invece penso che chi ha fatto molta confusione su ciò ma comunque non importa andiamo avanti ora : 1 tu dici dunque nel thesauro thesaurorum i 3 principi si addizionano col mercurio volgare e questa è ena normale e comunissima orientazione dei 3 principi nel regno metallico per la trasmutazione nulla di particolare e questa è una tecnica di orientamento ben risaputa e questo è un punto ok


ma 2 il dibattito era iniziato se ricordi bene in base alla tua affermazione

the Philosophers have concealed their solvent under the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol or even Dew only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar Vinegar or Alcohol and see what kind of result he gets...


ed è qui quando tu dici

the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol or even Dew only as an analogy for the real solvent

e li non sono d'accordo a prescindere dall'aceto di antimonio e il perntacloruro di antimonio che è un fuoco segreto /alcaest interessantissimo ma non è imho generalizzabile e non penso proprio che dew alcol vinagre nascondano sempre ciò certo in alcune istruzioni puo essere ma come dice nik e come dicono gualdi o i rc esistono con tutte le materie solveti ottenuti dalle varie materie specifici e che pare sciolgano l'oro da dew sale aceto acetati dew philosofical etc e come giustamte afferma bleuflord luce 77 dall'aceto ha estratto un solvete che pare dissolva l'oro (ora luce77 lo ha dichiarato ma bisogna essere onesti mai dimostrato )e poi va alla pietra come indica nik nel suo pdf

ora l'aceto di antimonio e p il pentacloruro di antimonio è un solvente e un fuoco segreto ma non penso che questo vade sempre genetralizzato come dici tu the disguise

(of Vinegar, Alcohol or even Dew only as an analogy for the real solvent)

penso che da ogni materia esista la possibilita di estrarre un solveto specifico che dissolve l'oro connaturato alla materia utilizzata
( certo di cio visto che non riesce probabilmente non si conoscono le istruzioni giuste ma questo non vuol dire che gli alchimisti estraevano da ogni materia indicata e usata rugiada acqua piovana sale vino tera come indicato nei libri di nik thesaro thesaurorum exstasi di gualdo etc il solvete per dissolvere l'oro )

tu che ne dici ??

cordialmete alexbr

Ok, you believe in one thing and i in another. No need to waste time.

ok dear TP but these responses and truncating a little stizzate little disgruntles and "little unnecessarily nervous"I think is not correct and this is not the way to break our further information themes began for sure that also of interest to all

perhaps we think partly differently but is one perhaps i ( and i think all here ) want understood wel your opinion that is differet many indicatin so welcome
( but here no one has the absolute truth of course I no research studies are open to 360 degrees and new data that are supported by serious feedback (and this does not seem to be there if at least for now??? ) is always welcome (I'm just pointing out some of the other data and does not check for put more deep the our Study and experimentation in laboratory)
therefore
please can deepen your opinion on the secret of the alchemists solvete you think as you say the alchemists hidden

of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

I think that here we are all interested in learning about your approach to what you really think? think that under the analogy of

of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar or Alcohol Vinegar and see what kind of result he gets ...

always lurks as an analogy the key solvent vinegar of antimony and antimony pentachloride write in pdf porpury 2 RAMS ? and always this analogy with Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.
actually hiding what?

NB TP (with always all my respect) IMHO So this is not, therefore, answer or stizzirsi nervosamete or truncate little gently and with little education the discussion here is not totally overpriced TP of who is right or wrong or strange to partisanship of a thesis or other but only to seek a serene and harmonious look collectively as the results are lacking and that so far no one has shown any results really concrete dissolving gold etc and this is true in regard in particular for wet and the phase of dissolution of gold etc then here is a IMHO with absolutely no unnecessary partisanship (and I have not absolutely) but only to ascertain the truth and how they were exactly the things about alchemical operations to create and dissolve dell'alkaest univervsale which dissolve perhaps specific? and for each particular material used in all the ways the gold stage what absolutely indispensable for obtaining the next phases for obtaining the stone

so TP (explained well what ) please kindly may you well clarify and explain your right to our opinion about what you meant when you say always as solvet segret

Vinegar, dew alcohol or even as an analogy to the real solvent.??

please thanks

my best regards alexbr

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;originale italiano::::::::::::::::::::::::

ok caro TP forse la pensiamo parzialmente differentemete ma è un solo un forse io ( come tutti qui vogliamo solo sentire bene e chiaramete la tua opinione che differisce dalla altre correnti ( e questo non mi pare sia li caso almeno per ora ???) dunque benvenuta ad essa (io penso che qui nessuno ha la verita assoluta e di certo io no anzi teorie o scoprte suffragate da veri dati e riscontri verificabili sono totalmete benvenute in una ottica di ricerca sempre aperta a 360 gradi ti sto solo facendo notare degli altri dati e alcune non verifiche per approfondire lo studio )

Dunque visto ciò puoi perfavore approfondire la tua penso che qui tutti siamo interessati ad approfondire il tuo approccio tu cosa veramente pensi ? pensi che sotto l'analogia di

of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar or Alcohol Vinegar and see what kind of result he gets ...

si nasconda sempre come analogia la chiave del solvete dell'aceto d'antimonio e pentacloruro di antimonio sritto in pdf porpury 2 RAMS ? e che sempre questa analogia con Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.
nasconda in realta ciò?

dunque caro TP con tutti i mie rispetti IMHO qui non si tratta dunque di stizzirsi o rispondere nervosamete o troncare poco gentilmete e poco educatamete le discussioni qui non si tratta assolutamente caro TP IMHO di chi a ragione o torto o strane partigianerie su una tesi o altra ma solo di cercare con un confronto sereno e armonico di cercare collettivamente visto che i risultati mancano e che per ora nessuno ha dimostrato nessun risultato veramente concreto dissolvimento dell'oro etc e ciò vale in particolare per quanto riguarda in particolare per la via umida e la fase di dissolvimento dell'oro etc dunque qui si tratta a IMHO senza assolutamente nessuna inutile partigianeria ( e io non ne ho assolutamente ) ma solo di appurare la verita e come stavano esattamente le cose riguardo all'operatività alchemica nella creazione dell'alkaest e dissolvete univervsale con cui sciogliere forse specifico ? e particolare per ogni materia usata in tutte le vie l'oro fase ciò assolutamente indispensabile per l'ottenimento delle fasi successive per ottenere la pietra

quindi TP (chiarito bene ciò )per favore gentilmente può chiarire bene e precisare bene la tua opinione per il nostro merito a cio che intendevi come sempre dissolvente amalogico quando dici

Vinegar, dew alcohol or even as an analogy to the real solvent. ??

plaese thanks

cordialmete alexbr

My intention was to ask Merc why he is so sure that organic Acid was the Vinegar used by Philosophers and not to explain far and wide what my opinion is on the subject.

TP but reading your posts did not seem in my humble opinion when you assert sentences of this importance and seriousness as these : QUOTE

Their Philosophers have concealed the solvent under the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar or Alcohol Vinegar and see what kind of result he gets ...

and still you say about it

seems he made his Vinegar from Antimony, corrosive sublimate and ammonium chloride. Rubaphilos wasted 20+ years on Lead acetate and he still works with it


that NB very well that they can also be really extreme and intense interest if proved promptly (but apparently not this is the case) would open interpretations and scenarios alchemical really interesting

but if ? (one is a one serious researchers and serious students and serious experimenters? ) must if is serious ? always need to be well prepared and always (always if one is serious ?) well available to support them with serious and timely audits and findings traditional etc (and this is what I always do the serious researchers and serious students and serious experimenters !!!???) and it does not seems that you're doing then pull the licks and then leave them as the pure diktal is not synonymous with any of correctness of any seriousness and respetct it to us all

my best rgards alexbr


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;originale italiano :::::::::::::::

TP ma leggendo i tuoi posti non sembrava proprio secondo la mia umile opinione quando si assericono frasi di questa importanza e serieta come queste

QUOTE

Their Philosophers have concealed the solvent under the disguise of Vinegar, Alcohol Dew or even only as an analogy for the real solvent.

One needs only to try to dissolve the Gold leaf with vulgar or Alcohol Vinegar and see what kind of result he gets ...

and still you say about it

It seems he made his Vinegar from Antimony, corrosive sublimate and ammonium chloride. Rubaphilos wasted 20+ years on Lead acetate and he still works with it!

che NB possono essere anche veramente di estremo e profondo interesse che se dimostrate puntualmente ( ma non pare questo sia il caso )aprirebbero interpretazioni e scenari alchemici veramente molto interessanti

ma se ? (uno è un serio ricercatore un serio studioso un serio sperimentatore ?) deve se serio ? sempre essere ben preparati e sempre ben disponibili ( sempre se uni è serio ?) a supportarle con serie e puntuali verifiche e riscontri tradizionali etc (e questo è quello che sempre fanno i seri ricercatori e i seri studiosi e i seri sperimentatori !!!???) e ciò non pare proprio che lo stai facendo tirare dunque delle frasette e poi lasciarle come dei puri diktat non è sinonimo ne di correttezza ne di serieta ne di rispetto verso tutti noi

my best rgards alexbr

idem for me

Have formed some from dissolving zinc in vinegar, then filtering and drying slowly.

starting material: 2lbs fine zinc dust and a 2lb ingot of zinc (not easy to use, too labor intensive to use using a file)




crystals starting to form: the bubbly looking stuff is the pattern on my stovetop




the crystals started out nice looking but then just tuned into kind of a mess not as pretty as Nick's but still the same stuff.




I have to get a few more lab pieces in the next few days before I can start distilling them to see what come..

There is some times ago I tried made the zinc acetate anfor distil it and obtains its spirit as ∴N.D.C∴ made. Unfortunatly I don't made enough zinc acetate and don't finish the work.
About the vinegar you need made it with common wine and after distil it at 10ºBe as is described in the nex text.
http://www.tpissarro.com/alquimia/vinegar1-e.htm
r.petrinus@netcabo.pt

TP--

Common vinegar nor actetone are the Philo Mercury and I probably should have worded that differently as I can see how you would think that...I do think that is an entry way but really in a guise to get people to putrefy themselves. Anyhow, wanted to show some support for nick and my friend Bluefloor and that was what I was really trying to do. Really we have so many things keeping us from lab work that I would rather encourage it, discoveries abound. You can think what you want but to make living Mercury used on that path, you need our salt, so we are back to the original need.

Blue--

I anxious to see how you go forward. I would be gentle with those crystals though...I like to crystalline in cold when super saturated. This is how they still purify chemicals today because it is that good. Re/crystallize with water a few times filtering in-between and then charge the crystals in what ever way you like. When you crystallize on heat you get other junk too...even when the stuff is suppose to be pure it is typically not quite right for our purposes. The re-crystallization process starts the state changes that eventually help release the goodies we are looking for.

Rubellus looks like isn't more in this forum but casually I see your post and as I'm very interested in try this path excuse me for answer to you.
The text that I have I found it in the Net so, I'm no sure if it is the original one. This text are very confuse about the dissolution of zinc into strong vinegar and the distillation of zinc acetate.
So, I ask you please if you have the original or a clear text send me the link for I download it and reed carefully.
I have here very red wine strong vinegar at 10ºBe and pure zinc and the suitable glassware for work, therefore will be easy for me try this path.
If you have the text into paper you can send me directly for my email: ip211140@yahoo.com