Tugel process

Nick,

I followed the Tugel (Moses Path) yesterday. I got some native cinnabar crystals coated them with egg white and gold powder and poured the remainder of the equal part of gold on the coated cinnabar. I put this in a crucible with a cover and luted the cover on. I let the lutem dry and placed the crucible in a stainless steel container and cover it with another container to make a pipkin. I then covered this with charcoal and roasted it for eight hours. After cooling I opened the crucible and the gold powder was still there on the bottom and the cinnabar melted into a silver grey mass that crumbles like Stibinite. Is this the ash spoken of in Tugel? The next step would be to make a red tincture with spirit of nitre.

Best regards

got any pics???

trueKabhttps://i.servimg.com/u/f89/13/59/06/89/tugel11.jpgbalist wrote:

got any pics???

True Kabbalist,

The gold is on the bottom and the shiney grey mass is the melted cinnabar. You can see on the lid where it was luted.

Thank You
Zosimo

Dear Spagyricus,
You know what I mean ?
May be Tugel explains two different skyes, one for the moon, the other for the sun that need a coloured sky because of his strenght. Do you agree?
Or I'm talking nonsense?

Zosimo

It looks like A.R. for Au and A.F. for Ag. You might want to rethink using spirit of nitre.

You need to get the crucible much hotter. And iron crucible is also required and it needs to be heated to red hot. The gold as to melt with the cinnabar, which will reduce the gold to ash.

The best "crucible" for this process is an iron pipe with iron end caps screwed on tightly. But some mercury will still gas out through the pipe threads, so the ends of the pipe need to be cemented. Or you can also put cement on the inside of the pipe caps so it clogs the threads when you screw them on.

Beforehand, you need to burn the iron pipe to red hot to vaporize the zinc coating. All iron pipes you buy at hardware stores are "galvanized" which means thereis a protective zinc coating to prevent rusting. You need to burn this off because the mercury will amalgamate with the zinc and coat the pipe, instead of doing it's magic on the gold.

Take great care you don't inhale the fumes when burning the iron pipe for the first time. Zinc is this free ionic form is very poisonous.

I'm convinced the work with Bismuth on silver and gold also produces the same result cinnabar does, and it's much safer to work with. Yet even though Bismuth is a benign metal that is so harmless it's even used in Pepto-Bismal and other medicines at high levels, apparently making an alloy of silver and bismuth produces "arsenical" fumes". I think this could just be if you use bismuth ore instead of pure metal. Maybe the ore contains actual arsenic. The processes for this are described in "Potpourri Alchemia"

Nick,

I will fabricate a 304 stainless steel vessel. How long do you recommend heating the mixture?

It looks like A.R. for Au and A.F. for Ag. You might want to rethink using spirit of nitre.

Why I should?
Any reason for my future repent?
Niter is a King's matter, but it's not the same thing as a King.

Zosimo

I'm only going by what it looks like in the book because I have no experience in this matter I cannot say for certain. It was not meant to be offensive, only what I see in the book.

Don'y worry.
I'm not arguing, only argot-ing.
You found your reason in that room or in all the extension of the kingdom?

Zosimo

Nick,

Do you think that the laboratory created bismuth crystals would be acceptable for the process in potpourri alchemia.

Guys,

the symbol AR and the symbol AF are of course the signs for Aqua regis and Aqua fortis resp. This is basic Alchemy, guys.

Frank

Yeah Franck ,
I know.
This was the thing I didn't want to say, just talking "argot" with symbols trying to avoid the direct information but, OK, I see that you all guys don't like...
May be looks a little mafia style ...
Ok, what I try to say to Spagyricus was: may be it's better to use (with Sol) Regia and not Nitricum to make the oil: this is my idea but, if possible, I like to know your mind.
As I like to know your mind Franck...
And I ask to Goatz: where did you find what you said, in the chapter or somewhere else in the Tugel book?
I'm seriously interested in this path that I want to realize soon.

For this reason I ask you all: do you think that during this process at least six hours, and the poison smoke, we could shot propane into the nest of ashes avoiding the opening-and -losing-the-stuff operation, or that we can use mineral coal? Or it's better to use those wonderful filter-masks in perfect style "man on the moon"?
Anyway thank you all Bro and thank you Nick for the suggestion about zinc etc...

Don Zosimo

Check the bottom paragraph of page 58.

Yeah, I see _,
And for the same reason I thought that Sol has to manifest in king's regalia.
I think that "it is the same wich you take" means all the other forms of gold Tugel wrote about.
I've not experience to say anything more, so I'd better to shut up and wait for new hints.
In the mean time I'll work with the materia we already know, crystals or pigments and, on the other hand, flakes or powder of Sol.
Out, into the wilderness.

See you later.
Zosimo

...May be I can use this pipe, of course my problem will be chrome, not zinc.
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...And I suppose that I can make a cage with something to hold the pipe, with a hole to shot inside a flame from propane torch and an exit-hole, a steel wall beetwen flame and crucible, just to make red hot the pipe-crucible without ashes...

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Whatìs your suggestion to cement (outside) the pipe?
Thank you.
Zosimo

Zosimo,

Here are some pictures of the 304 stainless steel crucible I made. I used a nipple and a half coupler and machined some tight fitting end caps. I then TIG welded them on. The threads are tapered, but I think I will still seal it with refractory cement.



I am thinking about making a small vortex furnace. It would be a stainless steel cylinder with a tangental propane and forced air. It should be efficient and hot.

With steel you are going to run into some problems when the hot mercury vapor attacks it for several hours. That is why using iron is the best thing to do.

Ok, iron pipe/crucible and steel furnace with refractory cement.
And the niter of the old Jabir
Thank you all.

Zosimo

What are using nitre for in this work?

Dear Nick,
Well, being more precise...
...iron everywhere, cement on the crucible, and after the first work I'll have to invent the proper menstruum, that's a Spiritus able to make a red tincture. I'm transalting right now the Moses/Tugel chapter. Until now, but I've to study more on this subject, it seems to me that the substance it's that nitre of Jabir that he called "royal".
Hints are welcome.
If I can ask it: why you suggest in the past doc. to use a porcelain crucible?

Zosimo

Nick,

I will use black iron pipe, this is used for steam piping. With this type of pipe there is no need to remove the zinc coating. I will get a close nipple and two end caps to make the crucible.

There is no nitre used in the Tugel/Moses path

In the Tugel book, he says to use an "air salt" to make the solvent for extracting the red tincture from the ashes right? Well "aerated salts" in alchemy are the ones which are carbonated, like potash and soda ash (potassium and sodium carbonate). Carbon dioxide is considered the "air" element in alchemy and "Aerated Acid" is carbonated water, but that's not what Tugel is talking about. He simply means water saturated with potassium carbonate, like the Alkahest of Van Helmot or Glauber, also known as the Liquor of Tartar since you can make it by calcining tartar, then leaving it to absorb morning dew, like we do with the Premum Ens of Melissa.

More than likely what happens is a red polysulfide solution forms when you put the gray ashes in the potash water. This isn't safe for ingestion of course, but is merely another step along the way to making the stone by this method. Once you dry the polysulfide solution, it will form a "liver of sulfur" when the potash and the sulfur melt together, and it just so happens this by itself would already be sufficient to dissolve gold dust and is in fact the other method historians have guessed that Moses might have burnt the golden calf to ashes. "Liver of Sulfur" is able to dissolve any metal and reduce it to a polysulfide.

But since the gold was already dissolved by the action of the cinnabar, then it's dissolved again by the Liver of Sulfur, that may be enough to get it to form the red-glass we are looking for.

As soon as possible I'll send pics.
Tuesday, the Lord Mars day, I'll go to the ironsmith.

There's the absolute need - at the beginning - to dissolve Sol in acqua then precipitate it? Or we can use Sol in powder?
We use crystals of Cinabre or the pigments in the same weight (of Sol)?
Thank you
Zosimo