Tugel process

Dear Bros.,
This is my crucible for Tugel Moses path: it's made of black iron with no treatments whatsoever, with its screw-cap and the opening key to use, of course, with a mechanic vice.



I'm trying to design a furnace for both the uses, for melting and for red-warming.

Zosimo

Nice work! Can you please show more how it goes together?
would like to make one but dont know what parts you have welded there..

I am looking for something like this for another few processes

Thanks..
Adam

Zosimo wrote:

Dear Bros.,
This is my crucible for Tugel Moses path: it's made of black iron with no treatments whatsoever, with its screw-cap and the opening key to use, of course, with a mechanic vice.



I'm trying to design a furnace for both the uses, for melting and for red-warming.

Zosimo

This our Frater Nick Sez:
The best "crucible" for this process is an iron pipe with iron end caps screwed on tightly. But some mercury will still gas out through the pipe threads, so the ends of the pipe need to be cemented. Or you can also put cement on the inside of the pipe caps so it clogs the threads when you screw them on.

Beforehand, you need to burn the iron pipe to red hot to vaporize the zinc coating. All iron pipes you buy at hardware stores are "galvanized" which means thereis a protective zinc coating to prevent rusting. You need to burn this off because the mercury will amalgamate with the zinc and coat the pipe, instead of doing it's magic on the gold.

Take great care you don't inhale the fumes when burning the iron pipe for the first time. Zinc is this free ionic form is very poisonous.

And He was right. My ironsmith told me that I should find the black iron pipes already with male-female screw threads: they sell the two pieces ready to be screwed one into the other.

Now I'm experimenting the lutum and the cement that should resist for at least seve hours of red temp.. I think that the two all-around coats of ashes that Tugel explained were funtional to stop or filter the cinabbar smokes. By the way I think that a complete mask and an outdoor place are crucial.

The next week I'll experiment all the stuff, with something volatile but non-dangerous inside the crucible well scruwed, luted and cemented. After that I will see if I'll open it or if I've to make another one .

The key you can see with those 3 spikes is made to grip the top of one of the pieces when the other is blocked in a mechanical vice; just to screw and open the stuff after the work.

The ironsmith soldered each of the two black-iron-screw-pipes welding them to the own round-flat cap. As you can see in the pic. It cost no more than 20 € for welding and 10 € for the pipes.

Zosimo

Zosimo, I think this path will not work for you, but please do try it to experiment.

I tried something similar here is a picture of the apparatus:



I tried opening this after it was in my electric kiln for a few hours, and it wouldnt budge..even with large pipe wrenches!
it just would not unscrew.. it was like it was welded together or something.

I think if you read TUGEL's book in RAMS he says to use Lutem to seal his crucible top to itself, I think a ceramic crucible would work.
He also mentions breaking his crucibles, this can be done with ceramic easily.


Adam

Zosimo wrote:

This our Frater Nick Sez:
The best "crucible" for this process is an iron pipe with iron end caps screwed on tightly. But some mercury will still gas out through the pipe threads, so the ends of the pipe need to be cemented. Or you can also put cement on the inside of the pipe caps so it clogs the threads when you screw them on.

Beforehand, you need to burn the iron pipe to red hot to vaporize the zinc coating. All iron pipes you buy at hardware stores are "galvanized" which means thereis a protective zinc coating to prevent rusting. You need to burn this off because the mercury will amalgamate with the zinc and coat the pipe, instead of doing it's magic on the gold.

Take great care you don't inhale the fumes when burning the iron pipe for the first time. Zinc is this free ionic form is very poisonous.

And He was right. My ironsmith told me that I should find the black iron pipes already with male-female screw threads: they sell the two pieces ready to be screwed one into the other.

Now I'm experimenting the lutum and the cement that should resist for at least seve hours of red temp.. I think that the two all-around coats of ashes that Tugel explained were funtional to stop or filter the cinabbar smokes. By the way I think that a complete mask and an outdoor place are crucial.

The next week I'll experiment all the stuff, with something volatile but non-dangerous inside the crucible well scruwed, luted and cemented. After that I will see if I'll open it or if I've to make another one .

The key you can see with those 3 spikes is made to grip the top of one of the pieces when the other is blocked in a mechanical vice; just to screw and open the stuff after the work.

The ironsmith soldered each of the two black-iron-screw-pipes welding them to the own round-flat cap. As you can see in the pic. It cost no more than 20 € for welding and 10 € for the pipes.

Zosimo

Is your ex-apparatus made of...?
Steel? Brass? ,,,Copper?

Zosimo

Adam, you can try heating the lid with a blowtorch before unscrewing it. Heating the metal cap will expand the metal and make it come lose.
I hope this helps.

Hi Zosimo!

the entire thing is all black-iron pipe.

Adam

Zosimo wrote:

Is your ex-apparatus made of...?
Steel? Brass? ,,,Copper?

Zosimo

THANKS!! I will give 'er a try!

jairo wrote:

Adam, you can try heating the lid with a blowtorch before unscrewing it. Heating the metal cap will expand the metal and make it come lose.
I hope this helps.

Dear Adam
remember as an ultima ratio the possibility to cut the stuff with laser for a little price. They'll ask you probably less than 5 €.

Have you perform the same Tugel - Moses path?
Zosimo

Yes true but I will just start over with a clay-made vessel, well luted, or probably try first with two stainless steel saucecups well luted! I can use clay and egg whites to lute them, or just clay which is easy to break apart.

Havnt tried the Tugel - Moses path, The one I was trying was heating ordinary salt and sulfur together to make a red sulfur which dissolves in water, supposidly you can get some gold from the process when you reduce it with lead oxide, and I can buy that at the clay shop.

Adam

Zosimo wrote:

Dear Adam
remember as an ultima ratio the possibility to cut the stuff with laser for a little price. They'll ask you probably less than 5 €.

Have you perform the same Tugel - Moses path?
Zosimo

Well, Adam, you think that earthware terracotta crucible can resist to the red-heat of our processes?
If it's the case we can design an egg-crucible with a sort of teeth in the edge of the locking (at the middle of the egg Θ) just to keep lutum and cement.
For me to work with one or two crucibles is the same...

Seems that you have a good collection of paths: let's have a summit about it.
Look for bonenove.

And. What you think about the matter of the "oil of tartar" I ask in the blue turkese topic?

Zosimo

Quote :

Havnt tried the Tugel - Moses path, The one I was trying was heating ordinary salt and sulfur together to make a red sulfur which dissolves in water, supposidly you can get some gold from the process when you reduce it with lead oxide, and I can buy that at the clay shop.

That sounds like a process similar to the nonsense Anthony (aka Taylor Haden, GrandMasterHaden12@yahoo.com) was selling, and no it does not work. You can't get gold from salt because there is no monatomiic gold in salt, so burning the salt with sulfur won't convert the monatomiic gold to normal gold, nor will reducing it with lead oxide, because there isn't even such a thing as monatomiic metals in nature. They don't exist. David Hudson made the whole thing up.

The government isn't involved in some giant conspiracy to hide monatomiic metals from the public. Their is simply no way the government could ever stop all the scientists in the world from discovering monatomiic elements on their own. And if this strange form of matter really existed, scientists all over the world would be discovering it every single day when they work with single atoms of metal to make nano-technology.

Breaking down the bonds of metal so only one atom remains obviously does NOT make it magically become a monatomiic supperconductor because that state of matter does NOT exist.

Re Nick,

I wasn't implying anything about monotomics actually.
This was taken from a book I ordered called "Compendium of Alchemical Processes", it has alot of interesting processes in it.
Also I did produce a "red sulfur" which the alchemist claims and also a minuscule bit of gold from the process.
the alchemist who wrote the process claimed it comes from the sulfur and not the salt.

I do not endorse ANY OF Taylor Hadens works (the guy ripped me off!), or David Hudsons or any of that stuff.

I don't want to get into any kind of debate with you on this Nick and I did not intend on shifting this forum topic to another process, so I am dropping the discussion but I would certainly enjoy hearing more about the alchemical processes which I'm sure people are intent on working with here on the forum. and I am glad to be of assistance here with what I can help you guys with
Peace, Love, Light!


Adam

Yes possibly, I havn't tried it yet so I cant really say for sure, I would love to experiment though, but I don't have any experience in making clay vessels unfortunately.. though I could surely read up on it! I think its good to have multiple talents, that way you save $ where it counts later.

Not sure about oil of tartar, but it looks like your doing some good work, keep up the good work I cant wait to see results!


and back to the topic of the Tugel process...

also Zosimo, I read there was some info on making lutes in "Chemical Technology 1872" that Lindsay publications publishes...
Adam

Zosimo wrote:

Well, Adam, you think that earthware terracotta crucible can resist to the red-heat of our processes?
If it's the case we can design an egg-crucible with a sort of teeth in the edge of the locking (at the middle of the egg Θ) just to keep lutum and cement.
For me to work with one or two crucibles is the same...

Seems that you have a good collection of paths: let's have a summit about it.
Look for bonenove.

And. What you think about the matter of the "oil of tartar" I ask in the blue turkese topic?

Zosimo

Hey Guys,

I made a small black iron crucible from pipe fitting 1/2" nipple with two 1/2" caps filled it with a half and half mixture of 24ct. gold filings and crushed native cinnabar. I add refactory cement (mixture of powdered silica and clay)to the threads and then added more around the joint edges. I then suspended the crucible with stainless steel wire above a large propane burner in the middle of the flame. I cooked this for five hours the crucible was red hot. When I opened it there was a black residue with a small amount of gold.

Nick, is this the way it should look?

OH MY GOD YOU DID IT! I TOTALLY forgot that you don't have to heat the whole crucible, you only have to heat the bottom of the crucible! GREAT!
What kind of burner did you use? I plan on using my propane torch,
What brand of refactory cement did you buy? I would like to get some similar to yours.
Was it easy to open?

Adam

spagyricus wrote:

Hey Guys,

I made a small black iron crucible from pipe fitting 1/2" nipple with two 1/2" caps filled it with a half and half mixture of 24ct. gold filings and crushed native cinnabar. I add refactory cement (mixture of powdered silica and clay)to the threads and then added more around the joint edges. I then suspended the crucible with stainless steel wire above a large propane burner in the middle of the flame. I cooked this for five hours the crucible was red hot. When I opened it there was a black residue with a small amount of gold.

Nick, is this the way it should look?

I used a turkey fryer burner place a stove pipe on it and suspended the crucible in the flame. The whole crucible was red hot during the burn. I got sand and powdered it in a morter and mixed it with firing clay to make a refactory cement. I'm not sure if the result is correct, the first time I did it the cinnabar fused into a grey shiney mass, this time it was more granular and black. Still all the gold was not consumed.

Dear Adam, In the same way you can't wait for mews anout cream of tartar etc,, I can't wait for news about Tugel-Moses path (T&Mp) from you all.
Now I got all the stuff to start, but I know you can do better than this ...
So, hurry up! The Great Piooner, that's me, this time will wait a little for your "dry" news between his boiling (or smoking) waterworks etc...
Blessings and good thoughts .

Zosimo

Dear Spagyricus, can i see a photo about your turkey fryer?

how many KGcal develop?

Actually the wild turkey hunter it's not Adam, but Spagyricus...

Zosimo

Hi All! I found another book for you guys, has alot of processes in it
"How to Prepare Alchemical Formulas from the Writings of Famous Alchemists" Goggle books has some of it http://books.google.com/books?id=n3vZDa2VZCwC&dq=alchemical+formulas+anonymous&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=_miCJjJ4Rw&sig=WVYiAtHSneIJyo84nhPMHDRgzvM&hl=en&ei=J2TXSv-IKYewsgPg5oGEBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Peace, Love, Light!
Adam

What a strange topic.
Who start it?
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Anyway, here's to you cinnabar from China and Gold from Italy.
I'll start the process soon.
In the meanwhile I'll think about bismuth.
It's the same process, more or less...

Zosimo

Hello Zosimo.. Did you have any problems when ordering your Cinnabar ? aka ( mercury) as far as Customs, postal mailing restrictions, Environmental Gov. restrictions Etc. And also how much did you have to pay ? if you dont mind telling me Auggie

auggie

Here is a source I used for cinnibar. $24.60 for 10grams
No restrictions...it's used as a pigment for artists

http://naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=450-10S

Dear Auggie and Kevin,
If I remember well Fr. Nick said that we can use even the pigments for painting, and he show in a pic the stuff, but I prefer to use the cinnabar that I can see in the shape of real crystals: are not so big than those that Tugel ask for but, I think, are OK.
You can ask to gaofudev@netvigator.com or simonwnlee@gmail.com Are two clerks of the same e-shop: write them, I didn't find their adress, our Bro. Melchisedeck found it.
For 7$ they give you enough: 1 carat or less pieces x 50 gr.. Let's say that the red mass in my pic is 2 x 2 thumbs.
I study the matter and I saw that cinnabar can be produced chemically: may be it works the same but, as I said, I prefer the old way.
No problem to receive it.
Now I'm studying the bismuth (have you any hint?) and looking for the good occasion and astro configuration for cinnabar-gold Tugel-Moses path.

Zosimo